Ajaz Ahmed of AKQA
How does your leadership make people feel?
"FEARLESS CREATIVE LEADERSHIP" PODCAST - TRANSCRIPT
Episode 388: Ajaz Ahmed
Here’s a question. How does your leadership make people feel?
I’m Charles Day. I work with creative and innovative companies. I’m asked to coach and advise their leaders and their leadership teams. To help them succeed where leadership has its greatest impact. The intersection of strategy and humanity.
This week’s guest is Ajaz Ahmed, the Founder and CEO of AKQA. They describe themselves as an ideas and innovation company. AKQA employs 6,500 people around the world and receives about 80,000 job applications a year.
The most creative and innovative companies in the world thrive when they build environments that their people trust and cultures that absorb new blood of every type, willingly and happily.
“In our industry, rightly so, there's a lot of discussion about diversity and inclusion. And I think the way we look at it is, diversity is being invited to the party, inclusion is being asked to dance, and belonging is having the opportunity to choose a song from the playlist.”
Developing a truly diverse talent base has been the focus of a great many failed attempts by a great many companies. This is true even of companies otherwise acclaimed as the best of the best.
For the amount of time, energy and talent devoted to the effort, diversity and inclusion is still too often a well-intentioned initiative rather than a lived reality.
Ajaz’s definition is the first time that I’ve heard a description that made me understand what a truly inclusive company culture would feel like. And I think that matters.
Leadership has always been measured by results - usually, the kind you can see on a spreadsheet.
That will always be the case. Economics matter. And in the short term, you can move the economic needle of your business through sheer force of leadership will.
Which is why we tend to judge our own leadership impact by analyzing what we can get people to do.
But, for any company dependent on creativity and innovation for its success, sustained economic performance is the result of how people feel.
This is a frightening idea to contemplate, I think.
‘How do I make you feel?’ is perhaps the most vulnerable of human enquiries.
But it’s the one that moves the needle, both on your impact as a leader and as a soul on the planet. A win-win.
Here’s Ajaz Ahmed.
Charles (02:52):
Ajaz, welcome to Fearless. Thanks so much for coming on the show.
Ajaz Ahmed (02:55):
Thank you for inviting me along, Charles. It's a great pleasure to be here.
Charles (02:59):
When are you first aware of creativity showing up in your life?
Ajaz Ahmed (03:04):
I suppose it was seeing how my mum had this remarkable ability to turn nothing into something. And so, you know, we didn't grow up with much, but we always felt cocooned and enveloped in love, which I think is the greatest gift that anyone can have. And I suppose the act of kindness and generosity and, I suppose, storytelling that our mum would have really was incredibly creative.
Charles (03:39):
Where did you grow up?
Ajaz Ahmed (03:41):
Oh, in a place called Maidenhead, which people often confuse for Maidstone, so it's next to Windsor. And it's near the castle.
Charles (03:49):
I was actually born in the shadow of Windsor Castle, so we have that in common.
Ajaz Ahmed (03:54):
Oh, where were you born?
Charles (03:56):
I was born in Windsor. All my mother told me was, "It was in the shadow of Windsor Castle."
Ajaz Ahmed (04:00):
Oh, that's incredible.
Charles (04:01):
She was crazy about the queen, so I've always wondered whether it really was in the shadow of Windsor Castle (laughs) or just there by association. But nevertheless, I know I was born in Windsor.
What did your parents do?
Ajaz Ahmed (04:11):
My mum worked in the local hospital launderette, and my dad did night shifts at the Beecham's factory, which is called GSK now.
Charles (04:23):
How did you express yourself growing up?
Ajaz Ahmed (04:28):
With the sense that anything might be possible. So I think growing up in an environment where there's really strong values and a massive amount of emphasis placed on our ability to be of service to everyone and how there's many benefits for yourself in that, as well. And I think there's a phrase, which is who's the wealthiest person? The one who has enough. And I always felt we never felt like we missed out, because the love was there.
Charles (05:13):
So that idea of being in service was a concept you were brought up around and with?
Ajaz Ahmed (05:21):
Yeah. Because my parents are very in service of helping their friends. They're very in service of, you know…. It wasn't just one job that my mum had, it was several jobs to try and make ends meet. So, as an example, when I was born, my dad would earn a factory worker's salary, which around that time was about 35 pounds, a week. And so it seems insane now, but it's a fact.
Charles (05:48):
What do you think drives the human spirit today? What are the biggest influences on the human spirit today?
Ajaz Ahmed (05:56):
Well, everyone has a natural tendency to compare themselves. And it's very easy if you look at social media that we can all feel inadequate. When we look at the perfection that's propagated on social media, it seems like everyone is having a much better existence. And I love that Kafka quote where he says, "I was ashamed when I realized that life is a costume party, and I arrived with my real face." And I think that's really what the whole authenticity and being, you know, the truth of what we are and being proud of it is something that's there.
And there's no question about significant amount of materialism. There's no question about significant amount of status, but again, like the German philosopher says, "Wealth is like seawater, the more you drink, the thirstier you get." The same is true of fame. And I think when we realize some of this wisdom, it can help us with our own. And I think, you know, all true happiness and all enduring happiness, I think it's scientifically is proven is when we bring happiness and joy to people in our lives. So in that sense, having this sense of joy and gratitude and, I suppose, grace and calm despite what the world throws at you is part of the challenge. And like, you know, again, there's another great quote, I can't remember who said it, but, "Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react to it."
Charles (07:56):
Is there a throughline as you look back at your life so far between that desire to be in service, that recognition that true happiness comes from supporting, investing, committing, helping others and your desire from a very early age to start your own business? I mean, you were entrepreneurial from a very young age.
Ajaz Ahmed (08:16):
Yeah. I was an entrepreneur from the age of 21, and I was, again, very lucky that I'd been working since I was really 12. So I had my first entrepreneurial adventure when I was 12, and then I got my first job when I was 15, and that was with the world's third-largest software company at the time. And they did something amazing, they let me work in every single department. And then when I was 18, I got to work for another phenomenal organization. And you can imagine, being a teenager, being influenced by these exciting, organized, democratic, revolutionary, Californian companies is somehow woven into the very fabric of my existence now. So I was very lucky that within those organizations, that every one of my bosses or role models or mentors, you know, I can categorically say that every adult in my life growing up was a decent human being. And I also realize how phenomenally rare that is. I don't take it for granted.
So that's one of the reasons that we kind of say, there's a one-minute MBA for any leader, which is make a list of all the things done to you at work that you disliked, and don't ever do them ever. And make a list of all the things that you loved, and do them all the time. And I suppose there's thousands and thousands of books written about leadership. It's probably the most common subject when it comes to business and entrepreneurship, the subject of leadership. And it can be probably summed up in a few words, which is, leadership is being a decent human being.
And I think it's also keeping our ego in check where so many, I suppose, mistakes of mankind, because it is mostly men who make those mistakes that have a catastrophic impact on people's lives, negative impact, so much of it is egotistically driven. And it's dangerous. So I think trying to have a sense of enough-ness and humility, it's all something that, you know, we all try and work on.
Charles (10:45):
The idea that leadership is about being a decent human being I think is a really interesting and compelling one. How would, how do you define decency within that context? What are the tenets of decency?
Ajaz Ahmed (10:59):
Well, I think that the most successful people are often the ones who help other people succeed the most, and they're also people who are inquisitive, so a catalyst for curiosity. Decency also means that instead of this sense of divide and rule, which is core in, in some aspects of business, unite and ascend is a better mantra to kind of achieve this collective purpose and the worthwhile missions. And I think, again, a leader shouldn't be a person who undermines or ridicules or demeans or disrespects or devalues anyone. The true leaders are the people who build people up and provide encouragement instead of knocking them down.
And I think, when it comes to the ego, as well, in business, often we tend to characterize things in terms of winning and losing, and that construct is probably the wrong kind of construct. But regardless of that, I think a true leader would be someone who when they do have that sense of winning, they win without boasting, and they lose without moaning. And I think, something else that defines decency is your aspirations and your motivations for your colleagues, your clients, your customers, your community, your ecosystem, your constellation is important.
But I think being a decent leader is also about courage and standing up to when things aren't right and good, making sure that the leader sets a standard that everyone aspires to achieve, and they have pride in that. And all the time, we need to keep raising our standards and that's what the focus is. So having the courage also to being brave enough to kind of put your head above the parapet when it comes to innovation and creativity.
And I think just one last point on decency and leadership, which is not to crave the approval of other people, though, often, because we're social beings, there's this real, you know, again, it's related to social media and the obsessions of likes, or I suppose they're called loves now, where we crave for the inner circle. And I think instead of craving for the inner circle is the recognition that an outsider's perspective probably provides numerous possibilities. But in a kind of clique, there are few opportunities.
So, one last point is just the understanding there really isn't any correlation between fame and wealth and happiness. That the novelty soon wears off with fame and wealth and money, but the addiction to it never ends. And giving encouragement more than giving orders. I suppose they're all.… You know, as you can see just in our conversation, you could write a book just on decency and what a wonderful word like that really means.
Charles (14:41):
Yeah. I think it's an under-recognized, undervalued aspect of leadership. And I think your reference about what really matters at the end of the day as we get older and our perspective about the impact we want to have and the impact we have had becomes a sharper reference for us, the question about have we made a difference, really does start to move ahead. At least in my experience, that question starts to move ahead of the question about, have I been successful through traditional metrics?
When you started AKQA, you're famously known to have said that you decided pretty early on that you were going to get big or die trying. How do you look back at that ambition now based on where you are today and the experience you've had since?
Ajaz Ahmed (15:27):
I love it and respect it because the motivation behind that is rooted in service. That phrase, "Get big or die, die trying," was when Nike, who have now been a client of ours for 24 years, on our first major pitch with them, they said, "We absolutely love your presentation. It was a brilliant, superb presentation, but right now we feel that you're a bit too small to take on what is a pan-European and potentially, global project." And I was so gutted that we could do what Nike considered to be the best work and the best ideas and the best presentation, that we'd lost it because we were too... you know, we were just one studio in London at that time.
And also, this is why I suppose I say, "From your greatest defeats can emerge some of your most profound triumphs." Because that then set in motion this adventure where we decided to build a global network, and at the time, Microsoft was also a client of ours, and Microsoft is based in the UK in Reading, which isn't far from Windsor and Maidenhead as well. And we would say at the time, "It's not just about Reading, it's about being in Redmond, so working with the head office. And because we had that aspiration, we got to design the user interface for the Xbox 360. And it became a defining moment in terms of interface design. It's still considered a legendary piece of work that our team worked on.
So you look at today, when you think about AKQA, so we're around 6,500 people in 50 studios, and we get around 20,000 job applications a quarter from people who would like to join our company for a career. And that's just via AKQA.com. And I would love to hire everyone because to me, anyone who puts the effort in and loves our company, you know, that's the most, most important, so if they love the work and love what we represent. And then at the same time, you know, just last, last week, it is the middle of June 2023 now, we were named the ninth-most loved company in the world in an annual survey carried out by Newsweek. And I find that, you know, pheno— And I feel like if we'd stayed forever tiny, this small London-based studio, we couldn't have done all that incredible work. We couldn't have built around the vision that we've got both in terms of the work and our contribution and the kind of employer that we want to be.
So, thanks to the hard work and brilliance of the team and the collaboration with all our incredible clients, we've achieved that. But you know, we don't rest on our laurels. We know that despite being in the ninth position of a hundred companies around the world, we realize there's still plenty of progress for us to be making. and I suppose on that subject, you know, in our industry, rightly so, there's a lot of discussion about diversity and inclusion. And I think the way we look at it is, diversity is being invited to the party, inclusion is being asked to dance, and belonging is having the opportunity to choose a song from the playlist. And the reason we talk about it like that is that the first one is getting the foot in the door. The second one is being seen, and the third one is having someone who genuinely cares about your opinion and your contribution to enable you to make a difference.
And I think across many industries, there's certainly progress when it comes to diversity and definitely also progress when it comes to inclusivity. But when it comes to belonging, there's a lot more opportunity for progress.
Charles (19:57):
One of the attributes that you've ascribed to really effective leadership is the quality of grit.
Ajaz Ahmed (20:03):
Mm-hmm.
Charles (20:03):
You said, "Even you're facing overwhelming and sometimes catastrophic challenges, if you have the grit and the focus to keep plowing on and keep pioneering, the results compound.” Can you teach grit? Can you learn grit, or do you think you have to be born with it?
Ajaz Ahmed (20:20):
I think it's about when you get defeated, and inevitably there's more defeats than there are triumphs, not giving up, and that's the key. Sometimes, we don't even realize sometimes how close we are to achieving what our dreams and aspirations just as if we, if we keep, keep going. One of the phrases that we have is the most powerful force in the universe isn't technology or imagination, it's love. And when you love what you do and you pour your heart and soul into it and you really feel that it's, good work. And I suppose the test for good work is, do people surrender to it instead of mocking it?
And I suppose that's the same for any work of art or film or, indeed, any customer service is that when we surrender to the excellence of the experience, then we know that's great. And if it's something we mock or makes us angry, then we realize that there, there's still, perhaps, more work to do. But I also feel that another important aspect here is the, certainly for me, like, I can only share, I suppose to use the parlance of the age, my lived experience, but it's about developing your character ahead of your career even. So where ambition and grit, and they're not the same thing, can be very, very useful when they're in the pursuit of honorable ideals. And that means that any employee, if they've got those honorable ideals, the kind of organization they join also needs to have an architecture and ideology that inspires and empowers the many.
Because the leader and the leadership team can transform the architecture and ideology of an organization, but it's very difficult for one employee on their own to make that much of a difference. And then grit is also about.… So, when I was 12, I wrote 11 letters to the managing director of the world's third-largest software company. So over three years, I wrote 11 letters, and I never got one response. And then just before I sent the last letter off, I had this thought, which I suppose is similar to that Einstein quote, which is, "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result." So I realized I had to change my approach.
So the way I changed my approach was instead of asking for a job, I thought I would give them examples of the kind of thing I could do to help the organization. And a week went by and I got a hand-delivered letter from the MD's assistant. And, you know, I can see it to this day. I can see her holding the letter at the house and how happy I felt. And you know, regardless, I hadn't opened the letter yet, but I figured that if someone's dropping off a hand-delivered letter, then it's probably good. So, you know, and I, to this day, I don't know whether because I got a national insurance number or because I changed my approach, but the point of the grit there was it was about the initiative and the passion and they're the only antidote to irrelevance.
And I think that's another reason why we don't really rest on our laurels, there's always room for improvement. And there's also another belief, which is, I think this is true, which is success has the seeds of failure built in, where you can have hubris and, believe stories that confirm your own biases rather than being rooted in truth.
Charles (24:30):
We've talked about a number of really positive attributes. We've talked about love, we've talked about decency. We've talked about grit. The thing that get in the way for people who would like to exhibit those qualities, would like to follow that pathway, if you will, the thing that gets in the way often is people’s fear. What's your relationship with fear? What role has fear played in your life?
Ajaz Ahmed (24:54):
Do you know that saying, the only thing to be scared of is fear itself? I've never quite understood it. Because I get just as anxious as the next person, but that doesn't stop me from trying. And I suppose (laughs) if you fail enough, you get this, I suppose, almost not acceptance for rejection, because that would mean you give up, but this understanding of rejection where the way to think about it is neither failure nor defeat. The way to frame it is it's learning and it's growing pains. And either the timing isn't right, which is the timing wasn't right when I was 12. No massive Californian software company with a subsidiary in the UK is gonna give a 12-year-old, however enthusiastic, a job. The first time they can do it is when the kid has a national insurance number when they can legally work, and that's what it is. So in that case, it was the timing wasn't right.
Or, sometimes there's just a compatibility mismatch. So in business, we often talk about, chemistry, and sometimes the chemistry, doesn't work out. And I think if we don't try, we have no opportunity to achieve those, those dreams in the first place. Because the other, you know, one of the other really important aspects to remember is we shouldn't underestimate the power of luck and chance and, and opportunity. Because this is especially true for, quote, unquote, "leaders" that there is absolutely no such thing as the self-made person. That every single one of us gets on the ladder and we get a rung up only when someone believes in us and only when someone gives us a hand and pulls us up.
So, and I talk there a little bit about, you know, chemistry, and that's often talked about in business. But one of the areas that people don't talk about in business is physics and the physics of what are the inputs and outputs. So, what's the process that will help us achieve a certain performance. And if we can achieve a certain performance it can contribute to better outcomes. And that's why some of the best coaches in the world will always say, "Trust the process, trust the process. Put the hours in, put the hours in. Put the practice in and that will improve performance. And then if your performance is improved, that will help with the outcomes."
Charles (27:59):
Are there things on a personal basis that trigger you? Do you find that you respond positively or negatively to, to certain kinds of situations?
Ajaz Ahmed (28:11):
Charles, I feel like I've got to a place where I love everyone and it’s impossible to offend me.
And I feel that's a good place to be, so long may it continue. And that's, but that's why that's the place where I really want to be where it's about that sense of knowing that there's enough, but knowing that we're all of service to our community and the species we share the planet with.
Charles (28:47):
Obviously, part of the success of your business is the fact that you are breaking new ground all the time. You're known as innovators, you're known as risk-takers. What have you learned about creating the environment that allows people to take risks?
Ajaz Ahmed (29:02):
I think the author is Daniel Pink, and I think he comes up with a methodology or a construct, which is autonomy, mastery, purpose, where if you have creative or innovative people, they really do need large degrees of autonomy and trust to be able to not be claustrophobic in their thinking, to be expansive in their thinking and diverse in their thinking so that they can pioneer, and ambitious in their thinking. And the ambition should be about the contribution that it will make to society or the natural world at large or a specific community or a specific problem that needs to be fixed. So hiring people is obviously the single-most important aspect.
Then, as Jim Collins says, "Getting the right people on the bus." And Jim Collins also says, "It's not about process, it's about the people." And that doesn't contradict what I said about coaches before because it's just used in different context. And what Jim Collins is saying, that when you have brilliant people in the business context, they will keep pushing themselves and keep driving things forward without the need to follow a rigid, templated process. But if there's likelihood for things to go wrong, then, it can become compounded, as well.
Charles (30:34):
What's the biggest mistake you've made, do you think, as you look back?
Ajaz Ahmed (30:39):
In the last five years, we've implemented a methodology or an operating system for our company that we call the AKQA Framework. And the AKQA Framework has four pillars, employee, client, reputation, and commercial. And in the commercial aspect, you know, we have a set of metrics that each of our studios should aim towards. In our people aspect, exactly the same. In our reputation, exactly the same. And in our client satisfaction and proactivity, exactly the same.
And one of the reasons we produced that framework is we used to have an annual strategic planning exercise. And we would go back to the strategic plan that we'd produced and we'd look at the document or the PDF and we'd see that we hadn't implemented a single idea from the previous year because we're so busy with clients and everything else. So, instead of doing that, we changed our mindset and we produced this live real-time strategy which uses a number of key metrics, so everyone in the company knows what's expected of them and what they can expect from the company in terms of respect and leadership behaviors and the quality of the work and all of those aspects that create operational excellence.
And once we started implementing that, we saw our metrics started really improving across everything. So again, that's another example of the physics where you get the correct inputs and then you get the clarity with the inputs and clarity of the outputs. But, but none of that works without brilliant leaders, so that's another aspect that we're so lucky to have within AKQA, so many, a really unfair share of extraordinary individuals and teams and leaders who collaborate and have an optimistic view of the world. And how could we not, because creativity is an optimistic act. When we're being creative, we're putting something in the world that didn't previously exist. So that's so exciting and also such a privilege to have that role where we can create and contribute and put work into the world that hopefully makes a difference.
Charles (33:16):
Are you conscious when you're recruiting that you're casting for a certain kind of person or personality?
Ajaz Ahmed (33:24):
One word that is important to me is conscientious. And as long as the potential employee is conscientious and, obviously, competent, then that's 90, 95% there.
Charles (33:45):
Do you have any regrets so far as you look back at your career to date?
Ajaz Ahmed (33:51):
The only regrets I have, and I suppose this comes back to, we learn much more from our failures and our defeats than we do our successes, because they really humble us and they avoid the hubris and this idea that, you know, we're invincible, is the only... when I didn't trust my gut or I didn't trust the data and it's not just data and it's not just the gut, it's both of them working in unison.
Charles (34:32):
And last couple of questions for you. What's the job really like? How does the responsibility sit when you wake up in the morning or go to bed at night?
Ajaz Ahmed (34:40):
I think the critical role is to be a champion for the values and make sure that we do not lower our standards across anything we do. And then that cascades into many other aspects, so relationships with our clients that endure. You know, I mentioned Nike, we've been working together for two and a half decades, and that's not uncommon within our company.
We're so blessed and lucky that our leadership team has been loyal and, and devoted to our company and our values and each other, you know, it's an unmatched level of commitment and collaboration and cohesion, which again, we don't take for granted in an industry where the staff turnover is often incredibly high. So I think the role is essentially, be a champion for the values, be a champion for the work, and don't let the standards slip.
Charles (35:49):
And last question, what are you afraid of?
Ajaz Ahmed (35:59):
Have you read Cormac McCarthy, who sadly, passed away this week? He's a phenomenal author and he, sadly, died just this week. And he, he wrote this phenomenal book called The Road, and it's the story of a father and a son and how the world can descend to chaos. And the aspect I suppose I'm afraid of is the environmental devastation to the natural world is accelerating at a pace which is not reflected in the media. So the media is currently obsessed with the narrative of whether, you know, let's regulate AI. And of course, AI needs regulation in the same way that genetic engineering needs regulation and consumer data needs regulation. And the news cycle is often about the new, new, new, hence the news. But what frightens me is two aspects, which is one, the devastation of the natural world and the accelerating aspect of it.
And then the other is the disparity in wealth. The richest people that have ever existed in the world exist today and that, you know, we have such a wealth of wisdom, a wealth of knowledge, a wealth of technology, a wealth of innovation, but perhaps a poverty of sharing it and distributing it. And they're some of the aspects that I think about and, like all of us, I'm conscientious about.
Charles (37:58):
I want to thank you for coming on today. I thought this would be a provocative conversation, and it has been that, but I'm grateful to you for the thoughtful and compassionate provocation that you brought to the podcast and to our collective thinking about leadership.
Ajaz Ahmed (38:13):
Charles, thank you for taking the time to include me. I really appreciate it. Thank you.
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