Keith Cartwright of CARTWRIGHT
Are you looking backwards or forwards?
"FEARLESS CREATIVE LEADERSHIP" PODCAST - TRANSCRIPT
Episode 227: Keith Cartwright
Here’s a question. Are you looking backwards or forwards?
I’m Charles Day. I work with creative and innovative companies. I’m asked to coach their leaders and their leadership teams. To help them succeed where leadership has its greatest impact. The intersection of strategy and humanity.
This week’s guest is Keith Cartwright. He’s the Founder and CCO of CARTWRIGHT, an agency built on the principle of Creative Audacity. He is also Co-Founder of SATURDAY MORNING, an organization built on using creativity to shift negative perceptions in the African American community. Keith was named one the 50 Top Creatives in the Business by Adweek Magazine, and by Campaign Magazine as Top 10 Most Influential People in Advertising.
The world is complicated. Perhaps more today than ever before. The journey to the future is not clear. What will be true when we get there? When our children get there?
And who will we be when the future arrives?
“You cannot forget what got you here. Because that creates humility. You have to be present enough to know where you are. And understand what, what it is that you have. But you have to be able to see where you're going and what the future is. In order to make the most of what you have and respect what got you there.”
We are complex beings. Drawn to look forward. Built to dream. But influenced by our past more than we sometimes care to admit. And much more than we know.
Leadership provides the light to the future for all of us. Creativity the fuel. The combination offers limitless potential.
Unlocking that potential, unleashing our full impact during the time we are here, either in this job or in this life, happens when we can bring ourself - our whole self - to every moment.
When we understand the journey and the influences that have brought us to this moment, when we know where we want to go, and we are clear and conscious about the obstacles and limitations and beliefs that we place in our own way, then we become a rare and powerful force.
We become a Whole Leader.
Where are you on that journey?
Here’s Keith Cartwright.
Charles (02:39):
Keith, welcome to Fearless. Thank you so much for coming on the show.
Keith Cartwright (02:42):
Thank you for having me.
Charles (02:42):
When are you first aware of creativity showing up in your life? When are you first conscious of creativity as a thing?
Keith Cartwright (02:51):
When I was very, very young, I always, you know, liked to draw and I spent most of my time in my room doing that. And I could quickly see that the level of reaction that people would give you when you did something that was wonderful, that was creative, and I liked that reaction. That reaction became a drug for me. And I constantly wanted to make things that elicited emotion from people. Because there was this unique sort of weird superpower in it. At least I thought that way when I was seven years old, five years old, and I've never been able to relinquish it.
Charles (03:32):
How did you express yourself growing up? What were your media of choice?
Keith Cartwright (03:36):
You know, a good old number two pencil. You know, I never really moved outside of that. I obviously graduated to different weights of pencils and, you know, vine charcoal, then eventually would move into painting. Which is what got me into art school, was that. But I just started out just trying to draw everything around me and starting to understand form and shape and just falling in love with form and shape and artists and the way that they made things. And with those feelings that those things that they made enlisted.
Charles (04:14):
Were you encouraged?
Keith Cartwright (04:15):
Oh, yeah. My mom and dad were… I still don't understand to this day. I asked my mom, and she doesn't even understand it, but they were very encouraging. They kind of knew that I would do something with it even before I did. You know, I have two kids, and I think one thing you can see is when a kid has to do something, when they're so passionate about it they're absolutely insane and they can't not do it. I mean, it shows up early with a lot of kids in sports, with art to some degree, there's some similarities because they spend all of their free time doing that thing. To a point where my parents used to punish me by taking away my art supplies.
That was the worst punishment I could possibly get. So I think they saw that and they realized that I was fairly talented at it, and they just encouraged it.
Charles (05:01):
And did you get formal training? Did you take the sort of the formal path?
Keith Cartwright (05:05):
No, I was all self-taught. And then, you know, obviously when you go to college and you study art and design, that's where the formal training happened. But I didn't have any of that until I got to university.
Charles (05:18):
Where did leadership come in that journey for you? Because it's, I mean, it's always an interesting evolution when an artist from art essentially in your case ends up as a leader. When did, where did that come from? When did you start to feel those sort of instincts emerging?
Keith Cartwright (05:34):
My father's a minister and my mom is a speech pathologist. So the joke is that they just wanted to make sure I didn't grow up to be a stuttering atheist.
Charles (05:45):
(laughs)
Keith Cartwright (05:46):
But you know, the truth of the matter is, language was always very important. How you present yourself is very important. The story you tell is very important. My father was deeply into movies and stories and how stories are told. And he's a very talented orator. So being able to watch him, you know, I mean, we went to church a lot, heard him speak every day and put stories together every day. And, you know, there, it's an art form. And he was able to get people to sit on the edge of their seats and pay attention and emote. Draw out emotion. Which is what I think all creativity is about - music, art, dance. It's all about, can I do something so well that it forces you to react at the core of every single art form? That's the basis. That's why we do it. And he was really, really good at that.
Charles (06:35):
So you watched him be able to take people on a journey and thought, "I'd like to be able to do that too"?
Keith Cartwright (06:40):
Yes. I just... I, you know, well, let me correct that. Because he would've loved for me to go into the ministry and I could not (laughs), no way. But I love telling stories and I use quite a bit of what I learned watching him in what I do today. Because at the end of the day, Don Hewitt, he was the creator of 60 Minutes, he's famously said, "Tell me a story," right? And 60 Minutes is all based in that. And obviously they've done it better than any news show in existence. But the thing that I love about that is everything has a story, everything. That's how we learn. That's how we think, from the Caves of Laslow, right? That the cave drawings, we're telling stories.
And a good story is in three parts. There's a beginning, middle, and end. And anything can have a story. A print ad can have a story, a banner ad can have a story. It's all about how you develop it. But the most important part is when you tell a great story, you retain it. Because our brains are built that way. Our brains are built to retain things in three parts. How did it start? Where did it go? How did it end? And if you can do that in the way that's engaging, and now this gets into what we do, people remember and then they want more. They want another one of those stories that made them feel something.
Charles (07:56):
I'm struck by listening to you say that. The thought that suddenly jumps into my head is that people have a story as well, right? Everybody's got a story. And I just want to throw this at you. Maybe this goes nowhere, but I'm curious. So stories have beginnings, middles and ends. Absolutely. If everybody has a story, where do you think their focus should be?
Keith Cartwright (08:17):
You know, I certainly think, and you've heard these anecdotes before, you cannot forget what got you here. Because that creates humility. You have to be present enough to know where you are. And understand what it is that you have. But you have to be able to see where you're going and what the future is. In order to make the most of what you have and respect what got you there.
So I think people who live too much in their past and they get stuck in it, you know, people who don't think about their future enough. And they're just living for the day. And there are repercussions to all those things. So I think to answer your question, the most advanced humans are… have the capability of understanding their history and their past, being very present, but being very aware of what's possible for tomorrow.
Charles (09:15):
What a great answer. I don't want to skirt over your career, but I'm really interested in the part where you decided you wanted to start your own business. What made you make that decision?
Keith Cartwright (09:27):
I think there are people who are entrepreneurs and I think there are people who like to help people build things. And I have always been an entrepreneur. I've always been somebody who thought they had an idea. And the way I kind of tear myself down and find humility in it is, "Okay, well, if you got an idea, go do it. Let's see you do it. Let's you do it. You think you're better than this person that you're working with or for right now? Okay, step up." And I think an entrepreneur will take that challenge and say, "Okay, let me see if I can actually pull this off." Where someone who is just interested in helping build and support someone else's vision, they just have a different mindset.
Charles (10:18):
So is this a personal challenge you felt you had to take?
Keith Cartwright (10:21):
Yeah. And I, you know, just like creativity, you know, you can't not do it. It haunts you. Like the best artist I know, they don't find the journey of… you know, Picasso talked about this a lot. A lot of artists are… it's a lot like, they don't find the journey pleasant. To make something is real. I believe true creatives in music or fine art, the journey is painful because they have to do it and it haunts them, and they have to get it out. And that getting it out process is actually a relief. The best part about it is when it's done, but then something else haunts you—
So I think, you know, being an entrepreneur is a creative act. I think it's an act of creativity to say, "I'm going to build an infrastructure. I'm going to build a company." And that comes with the culture, that comes with the humans that work there, and creating the alchemy of that, how the place looks, the flow. So all those things are creative acts in my opinion. So it's just an extension of that.
Charles (11:30):
You talked about each piece of work creating an emotional impact in people, that that's the goal. That's, I'm assuming, how you define success from a sort of personal creative expression standpoint. How do you define success from a business leadership standpoint?
Keith Cartwright (11:44):
I think there are some key metrics on growth and scale and, you know, finances, but I think, aside from all the sort of hard number accounting stuff, you know, for my business, my company, do people want to come in every day? Or three times, two times a week now.
Charles (12:03):
Yeah, exactly.
Keith Cartwright (12:04):
Do they feel like they're missing something if they're not there? Do they like the culture? Are you creating this... Dan Wieden called it art school. You felt like you're going in and you're having fun and you're learning. It's hard sometimes, it's fun. That was the environment he wanted to create. But at the end of the day, are you creating something that is going to be memorable and enjoyable for the people who work there?
Charles (12:26):
How have you dealt with fear over the course of your life? What's your relationship with fear?
Keith Cartwright (12:34):
I'll use my father again as a reference, so forgive me for that. He said, "If you're not nervous when you're going up to speak, you're not ready." And so if you think about that as it relates to anything that you do, you should be nervous. You should be fearful, because it heightens your senses. It makes you uber aware.
And in some senses, it makes you a bit paranoid. And that paranoia forces you to pay attention to all the things that are around you. You're double-checking things. You don't want to do it to a point where it becomes dangerous, but it's necessary. So I embrace it, but you have to also be able to control it so that it doesn't overcome you. Because ironically, fear is also the enemy of creativity, right? If you're too fearful, you're locked up and you can't think freely and you can't flow freely, and you don't feel confident and brave to throw out new ideas. So it's a constant balance between making sure you're not too lackadaisical about things, you're paying attention, but not so much so that it overcomes you and you clench.
Charles (13:46):
Do you have moments where you're conscious that you have to confront it?
Keith Cartwright (13:49):
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. On a weekly basis. Yeah. And then I... You know, I take the time to think about how I'm going to approach it and what I need to do or what I need not to do in order to overcome it.
Charles (14:11):
Yeah. And how conscious are you of where it comes from in your experience, in your journey?
Keith Cartwright (14:15):
There are key themes that generally do keep me up at night, you know? Things that I know are going to... If they're not attended to, I'm going to… they're going to come back and make me a bit nervous or fearful. So I see those things coming. I've been doing this long enough now to know, that okay, that thing's around the corner. That's going to... If we don't address this, it's going to turn into something bigger. I'm worried now and fearful now, but... And, you know, listen, it's... You know, I think it's an absolute lie of any creative leader, any leader to say that they don't deal with fear. It's an emotion, right?
Charles (14:56):
Yeah. I think that one of the challenges is to be conscious of what in our past trigger those feelings, and are we aware of it in time to be able to do something about it, and do we actually have the capacity and the self-awareness and the skills to do something about it? I mean, when you're in that... Speaking personally, (laughs) when you're in that reactive mode, when something has triggered you, it's very hard to step back and let your adult self go, "Okay, this is that thing again."
You're famously one of the five founders, I think now, of SATURDAY MORNING, one of whom is Geoff Edwards, who's been on the podcast in the past.
Can you give us a little bit about the original ambition behind the group and also the progress that you feel you're making?
Keith Cartwright (15:35):
Yeah. I think, we've been six years now, and I think we've made more progress than we could've ever imagined. I think we're entering into a new phase. So the story that we always tell is, you know, we started as just an idea. We... You know, myself and the other founders, we sat at a restaurant, we talked about it, we penned a letter to AdAge, they ran it, we got a phone call from Marc Pritchard.
And Marc Pritchard automatically assumed we were an agency (laughs), and automatically assumed we could help him in his longtime endeavor to bring awareness to all these things that have to deal with race and gender. And we did. We did some great work with him. We've done great work with other brands. But I think what, where we are now is we're trying to figure out what's the long-term legacy. We can't just be creating assets for awareness as it pertains to race. We have to build something that has direct impact.
So we are working on different initiatives that we're going to release and launch by the end of this year that are very, very different than putting commercials on air and solving, you know, advertising. Yes, we know how to do that, we can still do that, and we will still do that, but we... Growth for us and progress for us is about legacy now and what can we leave behind.
Charles (17:02):
Where do you think we are on the journey to diversity, equity, and inclusion? Are we... I mean, SATURDAY MORNING you said is ahead. You've made more progress than you thought.
Keith Cartwright (17:13):
Yeah.
Charles (17:13):
But as a society, maybe even as an industry, where are we in the journey? Are we further ahead than we were five years ago? Which direction are we moving in?
Keith Cartwright (17:21):
Maybe I'm being too optimistic about this. We have made progress. We're always moving forward. Even though... Even when it doesn't feel like we're moving forward, we're always moving forward. We may not be taking as big a steps in certain instances as we are in other moments, but we're always moving forward, right? So I truly believe that.
I don't like the pace at which we have been moving, certainly as it pertains to African Americans. I think we still face some of the major, the core, the... Some of the core problems that we have, we have been facing for decades, and I don't think they have moved enough. So that's frustrating. I think as it pertains to diversity and inclusion, I think we went out and grabbed a bunch of people, brought them into the industry, put them in the places, but did not create an environment where they feel safe and welcome. There was not enough empathy. And I think the empathy gap that lives between a person of color and the monoculture is pretty wide. But what people don't understand is, in between that gap is such great work and creativity, because you're learning about an entire world that the monoculture may not be fully aware of. And when you blend those worlds, you're going to get a diverse piece of creative. You're going to get great ideas that are representative of the country we live in, which is what consumers want.
"Show me, me. Show me you know me. Stop telling me what to be. Demonstrate to me that you have an understanding of how I live and where I live and who I am and what I struggle with, my world, things that I find that are funny or scary or interesting or entertaining." And I think when that empathy gap gets filled and everyone feels comfortable operating in a creative environment, those kinds of ideas will spike.
Charles (19:29):
My instinct is that the majority of people want to live in a diverse, equitable, and inclusive society, but I also am sensitive, perhaps, hopefully now more than ever, that I'm white, I'm privileged, I'm a male, I have no idea... Intellectually, I understand a little bit of what you've gone through, but I don't in any way really understand the life that you've led or other people of color have led. Do you think that my assumption is a valid one? Do you think that most people want to live in a diverse, equitable, and inclusive society, and what we really tend to hear are the people, the small, vocal minority?
Keith Cartwright (20:05):
Yeah. I think the... Yes. I think the majority of humans do.
I think if you ask people, I think they genuinely want to live in a world that is not monolithic. I think that's true. And I think mostly because they recognize, they're intelligent enough to recognize the problems that comes with separation based on race. And I think that there's guilt on one side and there's frustration on the other side. And I think neither of those sides want to feel like that every day. But it's hard, it's hard work. And you know, this country was sort of built around that principle of separation. So you're kind of breaking down the core structure of our society in order to get to the right thing. And then let's not forget money.
Let's not forget the infrastructure that was built is owned by one side that isn't really willing to relinquish that quite yet. You know, the price is a little too high. So those are the things that we fight against, but... and, and I think the thing SATURDAY MORNING realizes, you can't just make people feel bad or sorry for you because of the situation you're in. You have to create tangible actions for people. You have to almost tell people what to do and what you're asking them to do. And give them the tools to do it, or all you're going to get is, "Oh wow, I'm sorry. I feel bad for you." And then they move on and they forget about your thing. Which is what happened, I think, you know, between 2016-2020 when there was those crazy summers with all those violent deaths that were put on TV every day. There was a lot of sympathy and a lot of marching but I'm not quite sure we've made massive progress.
Charles (22:07):
Yeah. I wondered what your answer to that would be, and it always strikes me that leadership is this extraordinarily powerful force that exists in the world, and I often find that leaders don't fully understand in themselves the amount of influence and capability they have. I mean, the ability to actually change the direction not just of a business but, therefore, of people's lives. I think a lot of leaders actually underestimate. Trust is one of the most foundational forces that a leader has to provide in any successful business, successful organization. From your perspective and based on your experience, what do you think leaders need to bring to the table to engender trust in a multiracial organization, one that is actually reflective of society? How do I as a white leader create trust for a truly inclusive environment?
Keith Cartwright (22:58):
I think there are a few core actions. I think who are you surrounding yourself with in your leadership group. If you're not bringing diverse people around you to check you, because the major big agencies, you're not going to see all those people every day. They could be as diverse as a rainbow, it doesn't matter. It's the people that are with you that are building the business with you, do they have different perspective points of view, experiences? Because that speaks volumes to the people who work with you and to the people outside who are going to be your clients. So that's a direct action that you have to take.
And then on top of that, what are the things you're putting in place, how are you dealing with diversity and inclusion? I think one of the biggest problems with DEI in our industry is they truly don't have the power to do the things that they've been asked to do. Sometimes they don't even have the budget. So they end up becoming these figureheads who are, you know, firemen and women. They come in when there's something going terribly wrong as it pertains to race, whether it's an individual or something that deals with the organization. But they're not really making systemic changes, in the way that they could if they had real power and real budgets to do it.
Charles (24:20):
How has George Floyd's death changed your leadership or affected your leadership? I see companies for whom that was such a potent reference point and I see them as different after the event than they were before. How has your leadership changed?
Keith Cartwright (24:35):
You know what's funny? I mean, it was a horrific event. It was hard to watch. After a certain point, I'd stop watching it because, you know, every television station in the world was showing a man being executed every day, every five minutes. So... and as a Black man, I was like, "I don't need to see that. I got it." But the thing that a lot of people don't realize is, at least in my house and for most of my friends who are African Americans, we grew up hearing these stories. It wasn't as much of a surprise. Yes, it was horrific that it happened in this day and age, but these things have been going for generations.
You know, you hear, like your fathers and your uncles and your grandfathers and your grandmas tell you these horrific stories about things that have gone on in this country and things that have happened to people they know or people in our family. Those stories just aren't broadcast and they weren't caught on a phone. So as much as it was absolutely, you know… it was a moment in American history, for sure. But it was a moment in American history, not because things like that haven't happened before but because how it was captured. So the event itself, the act of murdering this man, we know that that's happened, but we haven't seen it like that before.
Charles (25:55):
Do you see yourself in that moment? Do you... I mean, for me, I'm watching it and it's an event that I can't imagine being part of for a thousand reasons that you probably understand better than I. When you're watching something like that, how personal does that get for you through your own lens and also through the lens of your children?
Keith Cartwright (26:13):
I mean, the talk that P&G did hit on it. It's something that I'd say most of Black men have to deal with every day of their life, the fear of the police. That's a real fear. And it's a real fear that's based in real truth that a lot of Black men have experienced. And so yeah, we walk around with that every day. And you know, imagine how many times you see police when you move through the world. Obviously, all of them are not bad people. Most of them probably are very good people, but that doesn't take away the fear. Because you never know. And then when you see things that have been happening, you have to ask yourself, "Okay, how do I talk to my son about this, who is nine years-old and is aware but doesn't know the true mag—" You know, he's still Roblox, Fortnite, right?
Charles (27:11):
Yeah. Yep.
Keith Cartwright (27:12):
Baseball. You don't want to steal their innocence but you also want to make sure that they're prepared for a life that they may have to deal with and work through.
Charles (27:17):
Yeah. Absolutely. How has owning your own company differed from the experience you thought it would be? What's different about it?
Keith Cartwright (27:26):
It's the highest highs and the lowest lows. I mean, there are moments when you're on top of the world and you feel like everything is clicking and everything is amazing. And then there are moments when you're like, "Oh my God, is this... what's happening?" And you go home and you know, you sulk. So—
Charles (27:46):
(laughs)
Keith Cartwright (27:48):
So it's a rollercoaster ride but it's... I enjoy it. I'll be honest with you, I really, really do love it. Because it's exciting and you're constantly improving and making.
Charles (28:04):
Where are you in relationship to where you thought you'd be?
Keith Cartwright (28:07):
I was hopeful but I didn't think we'd be here. (laughs) I mean, I'm very, very happy where we are. Now that we're here, I'm really starting to see where we can go. I think, you know, in the next three years, I think... I can only imagine how much further we can go because we've kind of got through a lot of the hard stuff. We’ve got great people. We have an amazing executive team. We're working with great clients. We have a great space. We're building a great culture. All the parts are there. Now, it's just, we just need a few more key client relationships to really propel us in to the next level.
Charles (28:38):
Obviously, your past, your career is littered with experiences and places that have developed a real capacity for taking risks. I mean, the quality of the work that you've done, the people around you have done, is evident to the fact that those cultures encourage people to take risks. What have you learned about that and how do you embed that kind of mindset into the organization and the culture that you're building?
Keith Cartwright (28:59):
You know, we call it audacious creativity. You have to... you know, risk is a tough word for some clients because they attach it to getting in trouble, right, doing things for the sake of shock and awe.
But you need a certain level of audacity in the work in order for it to stick out. There's so many things that people can focus on besides your ad. Way more distractions than you and I had 25 years ago in the business, where we were just working on print ads and TV spots, right? And now, you don't have to watch the commercial. No one's buying a magazine. People have their heads down when they're walking around and billboards are all around them.
So you have to find new and inventive ways to build a relationship with your consumer, whereby they are seeking it out, and not only seeking it out, they're spreading it for you, because you've given them content. Given them something really exciting, and really interesting, that's worth sharing. And so we look at it that way. Audacious work is worth sharing. And it'll cut through the attention economy if it's done well, and will give you even more than any media buy could ever afford.
Charles (30:20):
Obviously everyone's aware of what's happening with Bud Light at the moment. How do you guide brands to find the right place to sit within such a bifurcated society that everyone's trying to make the other side wrong all the time. What's your advice to brand leaders?
Keith Cartwright (30:34):
I think you need to understand... you can't just go into these conversations, and just because you feel like it. People are too smart. We dealt with this a lot with SATURDAY MORNING. And clients would come to us, especially in the, you know, the summer of 2016 and to 2020, and they were like, "We want to do something that demonstrates our passion and care for race."
And so, the first thing you ask is, "Okay, let's do an audit. What have you done up until now? Let's talk about what programs you have. Why do you feel like you have the right to do it?" And then, after that, you have to look at their brand and be like, "Okay, you make clothing. You're a fashion brand," or, "You're a tech brand. What conversation can you have in your category, that pertains to race? Because you can't do the same thing that P&G does. You want to talk about bias in tech? Okay, that's a valid conversation that you can have, tech company. Because that's something you know about, you're knowledgeable about, and that's something you can actually fix."
So we go through that level of a diagnostic, and make sure that when we do make something, it's apparent to the audience why they're doing it, they show up with some level of expertise. The only other way to do it is, you’ve got to earn your way in slow. Build a foundation, create donations. Put your leaders out there with other leaders from Black culture, or from Latino culture, or women's culture, and have conversations with and demonstrate a passion.
Then once that starts to build, now you can start to get into creating things potentially. Maybe you have to create things with partners first. So there's a lot of ways to do it. The way not to do it is to just jump out in the middle of the ocean, and say, "Here we are. We want to do this." Because you'll 1000% drown.
Charles (32:25):
And it's a real challenge and temptation, isn't it? Because the world is moving so fast, and society moving so fast, I think you get the sense that brands feel like we have to keep up. But I think the way you've just described it puts such a structure and a methodology and a philosophy behind it and a set of practices. I know your career is far from being over. Do you have any regrets so far?
Keith Cartwright (32:47):
No. I... You know? I don't know if I really live in that world of regrets. I think everything happens for a reason. I look at the things that I didn't like doing, or maybe even the jobs that I didn't like. But I also realize, like, "Oh, but that helped me either appreciate where I am more," or, "I learned something there." So I, you know, I don't generally move through the world with a ton of regrets. I think there's a reason and a plan for everything.
Charles (33:19):
How do you lead?
Keith Cartwright (33:21):
You know, I think there are two types of leaders. It's fear, and the other leader is love. Do you lead with love, or do you lead with fear? And I try to lead with love, because I think when you lead with love, and you demonstrate your passion, people don't want to let you down. And I think you get long-term advocates if you lead that way. If you lead with fear, you can get the equal result, but I don't think you get long-term advocates when you lead with fear. I think you get people standing up, doing the thing, and trying to figure out how to get the hell out of here.
Charles (33:53):
I had a guest on the podcast a few months ago, Devika Bulchandani, from Ogilvy, who talked about loving her employees. And she said that she tells them all the time that she loves them. Do you go that far? Where does... How does that love expression show up for you?
Keith Cartwright (34:06):
I think it's care. I think it's showing them that I care about their career. I care about what they're making, what they do. I think there's a level of trust and kindness that's attached to it. I'm more of an actions person than a word person, so I try to demonstrate it through action. I think, for me, it's more resonant that way. It's just... And it's also who I am.
Charles (34:33):
And last question for you, what are you afraid of?
Keith Cartwright (34:36):
You know, I worry about, you know, the future of my kids, and what we're leaving them, those kind of big things. I can already see that they'll never have the childhood that I had, which I thought was my... I thought my childhood was great, there was a freedom that was attached to being able to just kind of run outside and play, and not have all these, the social media and all the things that are sort of burdening them on a daily basis. We just didn't have that.
So, you know, I worry about what we're leaving them. I worry about our business. One of the things that I really worry about as it pertains to our business is, is it going to still be looked at as a creative field in the next 10 to 15 years? Are people going to look at advertising and marketing and say that that's a place where the creative people go to make amazing things that grab people's attention?
With AI, and how that's starting to develop, and people not coming in to the office. And, you know, I've judged a few shows, I don't think the work is as good as it used to be. I don't think people care as much about mentorship as they did before. I don't think the training is there as much as it used to be.
So I worry that all those things in combination will start to diminish our industry. And what's going to be left of it? You know, are... Is it still going to be a place that people want to go and get jobs in because they feel like they can express themselves creatively? I don't know.
Charles (36:03):
I want to thank you for coming on the show today. You described yourself as a person of action, and I think you have long been a catalyzing force across the industry. And I'm grateful to you for coming on and sharing so personally today. Thanks very much.
Keith Cartwright (36:16):
Of course. Thank you for having me, Charles. This has been awesome.
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