Julia Goldin of The LEGO Group
Unlocking the child within all of us.
"FEARLESS CREATIVE LEADERSHIP" PODCAST - TRANSCRIPT
Episode 172: Julia Goldin
Hi. I’m Charles Day. I work with creative and innovative companies. I coach and advise their leaders to help them maximize their impact and grow their business. To help them succeed where leadership lives - at the intersection of strategy and humanity.
This week’s guest is Julia Goldin. She is the Global Chief Product & Marketing Officer at The LEGO Group.
How do you lead a business that depends on play?
How do you deliver results today and build for tomorrow?
How do you find yourself when your whole company is watching?
And how do you build a team that dreams of possibility when the whole world is craving certainty?
“For kids, change is a constant and they're not afraid to throw themselves into it. And they're able to see a positive in everything. So I'm trying to also get us back to that, to lose the rigidity that we have in our limbs but also we have in our personalities that come with that adult life and actually embrace the flexibility that kids have and their ability to change physically and emotionally and behaviorally.”
Leadership is a lot about pushing the boundaries. And if you’re not doing that, you’re not actually leading. You’re just managing someone else’s problems.
But even if you show up every day, willing to imagine new possibilities and fueled by a clear vision of a new future, you can only do that by yourself for so long.
Eventually, if you’re going to change the world, you’re going to need help.
And the more that those people are able to explore and adapt, the more they are willing to see change as an ally not a threat, the greater the success they will help you create.
Encouraging the people around you to think and behave like children requires flexibility. Of how you see them. And how you see yourself.
In a world that’s suddenly so serious, that seems risky and maybe even absurd.
But the adults haven’t done that great recently.
Maybe it’s time to let the children inside all of us see what they can do.
Here’s Julia Goldin.
Charles: (02:14)
Julia, welcome to Fearless. Thanks so much for coming on the show.
Julia Goldin: (02:18)
Thank you for having me.
It's a great show. It's a privilege.
Charles: (02:23)
Oh, that's very kind. Thank you. When did creativity first show up in your life? When you were first conscious of creativity as a thing in your life?
Julia Goldin: (02:32)
I think actually very early on. I was always like a really balanced child so… I really like creative things. I like drawing. I started to play the piano when I was young and I grew up in St. Petersburg in Russia so my parents always exposed me a lot to art and architecture and music and opera, and things like that. so I always really admired creativity, creative people. So that was always a bit of a theme in my life.
And I loved being around creative people, but at the same time, you know, I was always good in school and math and science so there was always this balance, but I started to appreciate creativity and creative people and creation in general very early on.
Charles: (03:27)
How did you express yourself as you were growing up?
Julia Goldin: (03:32)
I think I tried all the things that usually kids try. So I liked drawing so I did a bit of that. I wrote. I wrote a diary, some short stories, some poems. I think probably music was quite important because I played the piano quite seriously until… almost like through university.
And at some point, what transpired this last playing to the music that I've learned, but also improvising and I really loved that so I think that was a really big emotional outlet for me.
Charles: (04:11)
What did your parents do?
Julia Goldin: (04:13)
They're engineers. Very boring. My dad was a software engineer and my mom was a... they're both retired now. But my dad was a software engineer, but that was by design. He was a mathematician and physicist so he got into computers early on and into software development. So I think that was a passion for him.
But my mom, she grew up in the Soviet Union and I think given options she might have opted for a different profession. But there wasn't that much choice so she became an engineer also. And she created big industrial refrigerators. That was what she did. But I think if she grew up in the Western world I'm sure she would have been in humanities are something like that. Like a different field.
Charles: (05:01)
And how old were you when you left the Soviet Union?
Julia Goldin: (05:03)
I was 13.
Charles: (05:05)
And what prompted the move?
Julia Goldin: (05:08)
My family is Jewish so my parents really felt that the regime was quite destructive and restricting for Jews. And I experienced anti-Semitism and lack of opportunity very early on and throughout my life there. And they really wanted to give me a better future so we immigrated. So it was really politically driven.
Charles: (05:36)
Where did you move to?
Julia Goldin: (05:39)
Chicago.
Charles: (05:41)
Oh wow.
Julia Goldin: (05:43)
It was a very big change. It was a massive change.
Charles: (05:47)
Do you have brothers and sisters?
Julia Goldin: (05:49)
No. I'm an only child and I really wanted to move more because I wanted to experience the world and I felt at that time in the Soviet Union, you lived really behind iron curtains. I never thought that I would actually be able to visit exciting places outside of Soviet Union. And so that was my motivation.
But then when we came go Chicago it was like a bit of a massive shock to the system because we were in the suburban America. It was completely different and very cold. It was in the middle of the winter. It was a life changing experience for me.
Charles: (06:29)
How did you go about adjusting?
Julia Goldin: (06:33)
It was a challenge for me because I came from an environment where I felt a bit like an outcast, especially in school. Because in Russia at that time there was a lot of sensitivity to what they called your nationality. And my nationality was Jewish and kids knew that so I actually experienced quite direct anti-Semitism. So that was a big negative and I felt a bit like an outcast.
But when I came to the States and I went to school in the States, I also felt like an outcast because I didn't speak the language so immediately, you know, kids are cruel at thirteen. They assume you're stupid if you don't speak the language. So I didn't speak English, we were very poor, we were immigrants so I didn't have the right clothes. I had bad teeth.
So fitting in and finding my way through all that was actually quite a bit of a journey. And I think I adjusted by learning, like children do fortunately. So I learned the language, I excelled in school and so over time, I went from one strata to another to another. And surrounded myself also with people that I could connect to.
So first it was kids like me who also came from Russia. There's a lot of immigrants. So it was being more in that circle. And then eventually it was branching out and finding people with similar interests and I went through a pretty massive development curve.
But many of my generation of immigrants settled in Chicago. They settled in the suburbs and they're still in that really great close circle. I just continued to evolve and move forward, moving to Atlanta and then moving to London. So I ended up back in Europe which I really wanted in late 90s. And that really shifted and changed my perspective on things, who I was with, and then also moving through my career and taking on bigger leadership roles when I moved to Japan.
So all of these international moves and all the changes I think they were like maybe themes through my life of continuous adjustment and readjustment. And I got very used to it, but I think it was ingrained in me from that very first experience of having to move and adjust to a completely new world.
Charles: (09:10)
So do you think that the experiences actually made you more open to change?
Julia Goldin: (09:15)
Yeah, absolutely. I think it made me more open. I think it made me more resilient. I think it taught me a lot about the change journey. You know, what it actually takes. I never fully realized how crucial this experience was also for my leadership journey as well, in being able to drive and lead change until I started to experience it in the work environment.
And then relate back to that first experience that even in the work environment when you go through a massive change where you have to change your behaviors, you have to change your approaches, you have to learn. It takes the same skills and I think it was those moments in my life where I had to learn so much so fast and continuously adjust and change, that made me very comfortable to be driving change or to be on the change journey.
And I almost feel like it's more of a constant for me than it is a big event because I never had that kind of stability.
Charles: (10:24)
A lot of people would have been intimidated by that kind of shock to the system and would have probably just withdrawn and kept people at arm’s length. Clearly you haven't done that. Where do you think you got the confidence or the courage or the determination or all of those attributes, to allow you to actually turn this into such a positive force in your life? Because it really seems like it is an incredibly positive force in your life.
Julia Goldin: (10:46)
Well I don't think I'm that unique to be honest with you. Because I think that if you look at the history of America it's full of immigrants who have settled and established themselves and became very successful. I think the big difference for me would be that rather than staying in the safe space that you create for yourself when you come there, I branched out more so than maybe some people of my generation. Where I really left the immigrant Russian culture, to move to Europe and start new relationships, etc..
Where did it come from? I think it was… I think there is a bit of magic in our DNA. You know, I don't know whether it's cultural. My parents, my grandparents, they all went through this quite big life transforming experiences. I would judge what my grandparents went through, living through World War II, much more challenging than anything that I experienced in my life. I was actually very lucky.
But I think it created that resilience, that strength and also… I don't know, maybe a level of fearlessness in terms of how I approach challenges and resilience because you accept that failure is not an option. You accept the fact that you won't be perfect, you'll fail, but it's okay. And then you learn and then you move forward. So I think that became a bit of a theme for me.
And of course with each experience, as you'd say, come more and more challenges in your life, you end up building more and more of that strength and resilience and knowledge and wisdom and calm when it comes to massive events. And ability to adjust. And I think that's how it worked for me.
And, I was motivated to want to achieve certain things and my motivation, my desire for something was stronger than the fear of failure. Or the discomfort of having to adjust to something new.
Charles: (13:00)
So with all that as context, how do you deal with setbacks? How do you emotionally react to setbacks?
Julia Goldin: (13:08)
I'm actually quite calm when it comes to setbacks. Meaning that I don't... maybe partly because I have a bit of a fatalistic personality and I don't expect everything to be perfect.
So firstly, I'm actually expecting that things will go wrong because they do. And then, I'm very much a problem solver. So when something happens that's like a negative event, of course emotionally I feel it. You know, whether it's in the personal life, whether it's in a professional life. But my reaction is always when there's bad news, let’s say, something hasn't worked or, you know, whatever. My reaction always take a step back, take a deep breath, to stay calm because usually there's people watching and I don't want to create panic in this team. And then I get into problem solving.
That's how usually I get into problem solving mode and I start thinking about different strategies, different ways, and eventually really come to conclusion. And what I have learned through the years is that these kind of things that we see as setbacks, sometimes failures, we get really disappointed. But if you really focus on what could be the potential ways out, what could be the potential solutions, when you look back you actually realize you end up in a better place. And that's because sometimes it's a longer journey; it takes you time to realize that.
But for the most part, I have always been able to look back at things that have happened that made me… that seemed like very big disappointments in the moment in time, as actually events that have created better opportunities for the future.
Charles: (14:51)
I often find that holding that kind of mindset works really well when you are mission driven or goal focused. Is that true for you? Are you focused on outcomes? Are you focused on, this is what we're trying to create here?
Julia Goldin: (15:05)
Yeah. I think that would be true. I think the word create is very important for me because I am a creative person and I like output. So I am focused on achieving goals from that perspective. I'm less driven by, let's say, purely financial goals. I'm a lot less excited if I see numbers than I am when I see really great product innovation, a really amazing experience and seeing how people react to it.
Those are my big drivers. I know when we want to achieve something, whether I'm with the team or whether it's in the personal life, then I'm really focused on that goal. And then I'll find a way to get there.
Charles: (15:50)
So you talked a little bit earlier about bringing these kinds of personal qualities of yours into the workplace, into your business environment. How do you create an environment that supports this kind of change? I mean, obviously, the world is up for grabs at the moment and business is unpredictable at best. So how are you going about building an environment that supports this kind of change mentality?
Julia Goldin: (16:12)
It's a really, really important question because I think change is a constant. And I think it's very needed. And some organizations find it more difficult to change than others. I think there's two dynamics that work together.
I think one is that people do need to understand the need for change. If you're rationally, emotionally connected to the mission and you understand why change is needed, I think that's really important, and sometimes it's not change for change’s sake, but actually getting motivated about the outcome.
So getting people inspired is important. Getting their adrenaline up and opening up, their minds and eyes I think is very important.
But I think there's another element as well, that people need to feel safe when they go through change. They need to feel that it's okay to make mistakes, it's okay to feel uncomfortable. So creating psychological safety, creating space for people to also be able to go through change and opportunity to dialogue, opportunity to reflect and opportunity to openly say how they're feeling, you know, I think is also very, very important. And I've found that these two things together are crucial.
But I think the other element that is really important as well, is that as a leader you have to stay focused on ensuring the change that's happened. Because it's very easy, if you listen to everybody, to say, "Let's just not do it. Let's not change this process. Let's not change this approach." Because it's difficult.
So I also feel sometimes it's also, continue to reinforce the need for change and also throwing people a bit into it by making the changes. You know, changing it, not talking for too long, but actually getting people to experience it. Usually I find that the experience is much easier than what people can imagine in their heads it’s going to be, and trying and living through it is a faster way to adapt change.
I'm lucky in my current role because in The LEGO Group we always talk about children being our role models. And children are very accommodating to change. So for a five year old to go through an immigration that I went through as a 13 year old is much easier. They can learn the language much faster, they adapt their accents very well. They're extremely adaptive.
If you look at how kids, you know, for kids change is a constant and they're not afraid to throw themselves into it. And they're able to see a positive in everything. So I'm trying to also get us back to that, you know, to lose the rigidity that we have in our limbs but also we have in our personalities that come with adult life and actually embrace the flexibility that kids have and their ability to change physically and emotionally and behaviorally.
Charles: (19:11)
So is the child in the room a lot with you guys from a business standpoint? Are you always conscious of how would a child react to this? What matters to them?
Julia Goldin: (19:19)
Yeah. A lot. And we try to reinforce that in many different ways. I mean it's not always easy because of course, we're all adults. It's not always easy to put us ourselves in a child mindset. But we do try to really think of kids as our role models and we actually do things like play to enable us to sometimes experience that.
Charles: (19:44)
So are you conscious, then, of the kind of people you need to hire who bring that willingness, who bring those kinds of attributes to the table? Because not everybody would feel comfortable in that kind of environment.
Julia Goldin: (19:54)
I'm conscious of the fact that diversity is extremely important, especially in a creative organization. So you need to mix people up and ensure that you have a combination of different experiences, different skill sets.
I think experience in the company is very important, that kind of institutional knowledge. But I think pairing it up with people that also bring a different perspective, a different point of view, is also very important.
So I think that that's definitely a focus for me. But in terms of change readiness, to me that's something that is happening now where it's come as a given. I don't think you can survive if you're not willing to embrace change. It's interesting. We embrace change all the time in our lives. Look at what's happening with technology, especially where we started and where we are 20, 30 years later. We cannot live without it and we are constantly living with the need for adaptive change, because things around us change all the time.
Sometimes it's more difficult to do in a work environment, but it's actually not that different of a journey. So I think the change readiness is something that, of course, is great to bring people in who are change ready, but it's really important to work with everybody on their change readiness.
Charles: (21:16)
You know, LEGO is such an important component of so many of our lives. I mean, a large part of my childhood was formed by my relationship with my LEGO set. I don't say that lightly. It was a really fundamental part of my growing up and I still have really warm feelings for the product and the brand as a result.
How do you navigate the tension between being a business that is entirely focused on the future of play and the fact that you're running a business? How do you meld the tension between those two very different dynamics?
Julia Goldin: (21:49)
Well I think that the one thing that is super important for The LEGO Group is the mission to inspire and develop builders of tomorrow. And to reach as many kids as possible. And I think that we are very lucky in the fact that that mission doesn't fight with our commercial aspirations.
Many companies have amazing missions, but many are driven by the financial results. We are not driven by financial results only. We have a number of our pinnacle performance indicators, which are not just financial. Actually financials are not the biggest part of it. So we actually look at the number of kids that we reach. We look at the kinds of experiences that we have and the promoter score. We look at our company reputation. So this helps the balance.
And then the second thing is that commercial health is we understand the importance of being a healthy business. And the reason why it's important for us is because by being healthy we have the opportunity to reinvest, which we do consistently. To invest more and more in developing the future because we have so many kids out there that we're still yet to reach. And 25% of everything that we make goes to LEGO Foundation which helps underprivileged kids. So we’re also really giving back.
Charles: (23:13)
I know you've talked about the fact that the pandemic has had a huge influence on your personal leadership approach. How do you think you've become or shown up as being more authentic?
Julia Goldin: (23:25)
I think that the pandemic, you know, in some ways equalized everybody. And I was experiencing same things that, you know, everybody else that was primed for me like dealing with my child having online learning. And like really struggling with that; that did not go well.
Dealing with being worried about my elderly parents or not being able to see people. Not being able to travel. We lost my father-in-law. So it was a lot of things that were happening in my life that were exactly the same as were happening in the lives of my colleagues. And when I had engagement sessions and town halls and wrote to the organization because I couldn't see them, I ended up talking more about that. I think that was really important.
I think it equalized me, because usually when you come into the office they see you in meetings, but you are there as a decision maker, etc. And you don't get a chance to have this very personal conversation with 2,000 people. But I was able to do that. So I think that was one element.
I think the second element is that I was very open about the personal changes that I went through. In particular, really realizing what was really important in my life and, having a very different lens on priorities and what great looked like. And I think those kind of realizations and the fact that I was really honest with people in saying, "Well, this is how I'm seeing it now. This is what I've learned." I think also made an impact.
For me, the most important thing probably was also the fact that I believe that leaders can and should be emotional. And I was really genuinely worried about people getting sick and I reached out to them. So it was really, I think, combination of all of those things and being able to show emotion and share how I was feeling about things that I think brought me closer to many, many more people.
Charles: (25:47)
I see a lot of leaders at this point in the pandemic hitting a wall. They've gone through 18, 19, 20 months of this. I think we all felt that we'd be in a different situation now. That things would feel a little more relaxed and we'd be a little more certain about what the future looked like. And clearly we're not anywhere close to that. How are you experiencing this particular phase of the entire process that we're living through?
Julia Goldin: (26:10)
I wasn't hitting the wall, but I was really feeling very isolated right before the summer break. But now I feel very energized because I'm going to Denmark so I'm actually going to see people. And that idea of just walking back into the LEGO campus, Innovation House, seeing people. I'm just super excited about that.
So I'm actually feeling very energized. I mean, we've had two incredible years. I mean, the way that we've been able to also be relevant to more and more people around the world and also what our teams have been able to accomplish, from all the innovation going out, all of our factories working. I mean, it's just been incredible effort.
So I think even when you sometimes personally hit the wall you can take a step back and say, "Wow, but it's been really an amazing journey and there's so much more to do in the future." So I can get myself very motivated and excited about that.
Charles: (27:08)
Have you always wanted to lead? Did you always want to be a leader?
Julia Goldin: (27:13)
It wasn't natural for me at all. Firstly, I grew up never really being cast in these positions when I was young. I was like an immigrant with a bad accent and etc. So like I would never ever imagine myself as a leader when I was younger.
And I only started to really get a feel for it and for my ability to do it when I was in my early career stages and I had an opportunity to start leading. Like when I became Marketing Director in the UK it was probably the first time that I actually started to experience the joy of leadership, because previously it was much more management.
So it wasn't natural for me. It took quite a while for me to transition from seeing leadership as a way to direct people and deliver something through people, to something that actually is much more of an enabling and building role. Ability to develop people, develop organizations, drive positive momentum and change, create inspirational and vision for the future, but also set ourselves up to deliver that.
I mean, all of that came later. So it wasn't natural for me, but I think over time it become something that I truly really enjoy and thrive on and so then it became much more who I am.
Charles: (28:34)
You used the phrase in joy of leadership. Is that how you feel about it? Is that how you see it?
Julia Goldin: (28:38)
Yes. I mean, I personally really… I love the spark in people's eyes when they feel that they're personally developing, when they're excited about what they're doing, when they are proud of what they've accomplished. I love seeing the growth. So that's why for me, it’s a joy.
Charles: (29:03)
LEGO is obviously a phenomenally creative company and you've talked about the importance of creativity both for you personally and for the company. What do you think are critical components of building an environment that allow people to unlock their own capacity for creative thinking and innovation?
Julia Goldin: (29:19)
It's really important that the environment really embraces diversity. I don't mean just diversity from a race, gender, although that's also extremely important. But in terms of all kinds of different diversity. Diversity of thought, experience, culture, orientation, whatever it may be. Because I think that breeds also opportunity for people to be themselves and be creative. I think that's one important aspect.
And most creative people really thrive on being with people who are not exactly like them because they can really spark off of each other. So I think that's one element of it.
I think the other element is, there has to be freedom. You know, creativity requires freedom. You can't just tell people, "Do this and do that and do that," because then you're not leaving them any room. So I think it has to have oxygen for people to actually create and space.
And we do quite a lot of things like that. We have Design Boosts, where we give designers a whole week off to do the things that they like. We have FabuLabs where they can take a Friday off to do the things that they love and learn new things, so I think that's also really important.
And then the way that we construct what we do I think what's really also important is to ensure that there is always room for innovation that might be a bit out there, a bit risky, that we need to be able to try different things. And I think that also is super important for creativity to thrive, because you don't know the things are going to work, but you know, that's the basis of creativity is that you're creating things that didn't exist before. So I think all those things - are elements of what makes our environment super creative.
So I think those would be the big elements. The fact that we say children are our role models is also very important here because kids thrive creatively when they're given an opportunity to be creative. When there isn't a set way of doing things; when they're allowed space and freedom to get their imagination going.
You can't do only that because we have to deliver things that are in the plan. But you have to allow room for that.
Charles: (31:32)
It seems that... or it feels to me that trust is really central to everything that we're talking about, both in terms of the relationship you've got with your consumers, in terms of the environment you’re creating for people internally. How do you go about engendering trust?
Julia Goldin: (31:48)
Transparency, openness, honesty, delivering on what we say. I think that's really important. Psychological safety is super important. ensuring that people can feel comfortable. That there is no negative consequences of being open and honest about things. I think those are very important elements.
And then I think, at the end of the day, I think a lot of trust also comes from building relationships and continuously delivering on what you've promised. You know, it's a formula. in some ways, between your personal credibility, your openness and honesty and belief and the respect for each other, and just a level of intimacy, a level of connection.
So with my team, I spend a lot of time with them and I'm very open with them and I also believe you need to know each other as human beings and trust is built over time. And being able to go through difficult experiences together and have each other's back. And if mistakes are being made or if you are feeling threatened, to be able to talk about that.
So I try to instill that openness and I try to help people to learn as much as possible about each other because I believe that those are really important elements in getting to know each other and starting to build a relationship. Trust is not something that I think you can just say, "Okay, now we're going to have trust in the organization." It's work. It's an emotional connection that you have to people. It's also experience and being able to, you know, to see that people do what they say, what they promise. So I try to really hold that up.
Charles: (33:32)
And do you think working from home has made that easier or harder?
Julia Goldin: (33:38)
I think at the end of the day it's the same because you have to work with people and you have to deliver on what you promised and you have to be open.
But, what I think has happened with working from home is in some ways I actually think it made it easier, because there's been a lot more bilateral relationships that people have had. You know, one of the things that has happened, I think not just for us, but for every organization is that the meeting size and the number of meetings probably got reduced. We used to have a lot of meetings so people would come, a lot of people would sit in the same room. You can't make decisions like that. So I think having to act fast, having to be in difficult situations and conditions, I think that all builds the foundation.
So in some ways I think that people will come out knowing each other better and having been through more challenging experiences together. And I think that will help us to trust each other more.
So people went off with COVID and their coworkers, their colleagues, had to step in. And it's being able to also share what's happening in your personal life. So my suspicion, is that there will be stronger relationships between people now than before.
Charles: (35:00)
And what part of a COVID experience do you think will be still with us, from a working structure standpoint in a year, say? What do you think will be the lessons that we take away from this that will move businesses forward?
Julia Goldin: (35:13)
Well at least I can speak for my organization. I think we have learned that we can do with a lot less, in terms of travel, in terms of number of people that need to come to meetings. In terms of the level of alignment that we need to have on big decisions. In terms of the length of time things take. So I think we have learned that we can do a lot more under pressure than what we would have imagined before COVID. And I hope that that agility and that flexibility stays.
I think that we've all learned the value or have experienced the value of having more time at home. And I do feel that people will get back to work and get back to travel, but never to the same extent that what we've had before and I think that's a positive. That we need that balance in our life and our kids and families deserve that too.
I think those things will stay. And I think a level of confidence in our ability to actually do things that seemed impossible. I certainly hope that that will be ingrained in the DNA of the organization and of the people. I think those things will stay.
I think as a negative, there will be a level of cautiousness and fear that I think is just going to be with us as a society now. You know, because there's been a lot of conversations about global pandemics, but now it's happened. So I think it will be yet another thing like, unfortunately, terrorism, for example. That penetrated, used to be somewhere, but not here. Now it penetrated everyone's lives and I think we will… I think our kids will grow up with a different impression of the world than we have.
Charles: (37:06)
I'm sure you're right about that. People aren't talking about that yet, but I'm sure you're right about that. What role do you think fear has played in your life?
Julia Goldin: (37:17)
I think fear has been important. Because most of the big things that I managed to overcome and was closely connected to the things that I actually felt quite scary.
For me, it was probably the conduit to push forward more so than something that held me back. It's an interesting question for me because physically, I used to have the same approach to things that were physically challenging for me as I do to my business career. And what I have experienced as a result, which I don't always talk about but I'll share. What I experienced as a result is that actually taking on physical challenges can turn out super bad. So I used to have a fear of rappelling, you know, fear of heights. But I forced myself to rappel and it was fine.
And then I really wanted to learn how to ski and I was a bit fearful about that too. But I got on skis and I started learning and the first time I learned how to, like literally the first day that I skied, at the very end of the day I fell and I broke my leg super badly. Tibia and fibula bones both, so it was a year long recovery. But I recovered and I got back on skis and I wanted to learn again. And I went for another ten years trying to learn how to ski. I didn't ski all that much, but every time I had an opportunity I would get back on skis.
And always had a bit of a feeling in the pit of my stomach until exactly ten years later on the same day, I fell again and broke my other leg exactly the same. Exactly the same way. And it was another year long recovery that happened in Japan.
So that set me up with a fear of getting really badly injured again and I never went back on skis for that reason. So I actually in my physical life, you know, there are some things I don't do.
But I don't have that same... I think it played out a different role for me in my professional life where of course I find new experiences daunting. I don't whether I would call it fear or not, but I've thrived on persevering. So I think it played that role of almost pushing me a bit.
Charles: (39:56)
How do you lead?
Julia Goldin: (40:00)
I lead with passion. I lead with emotion. I lead with honesty. I lead with a lot of care for my people. I'm a very collaborative leader. I never see myself as having all the answers or needing to be on stage. So I also lead through a lot of cooperation and teamwork.
But I am very passionate. And I lead with a vision and I lead with, I think, with a drive. But mixed up with human understanding.
Charles: (40:38)
And as you look at the future what are you afraid of?
Julia Goldin: (40:46)
You know what I am afraid of is things that are completely outside of our control. So honestly speaking, nothing related to business. What I'm afraid of is health of people around me, the people that I love. I'm afraid of how my kids are gonna grow up, what happens in their lives. These kinds of things that are completely outside of our control; those are the ones that tend to keep me awake at night.
Everything else I believe is okay. And just to go back to fear, maybe one thing I should mention and that also connects to what I'm afraid of. So when my first son was born we were living in London and he was a very calm baby. We were crossing High Street Kensington and suddenly, in the middle of the road when we stopped at a red light, he started crying, really loudly. So I asked the doctor, I said, "You know, suddenly he had this crying fit."
And he said, "You know, kids are born with two fears. The fear of falling down and the fear of loud noises. And all other fears are acquired through our lifetime."
I think that probably shaped a lot my attitude to fear. And that's why in the human business sense, the things that I'm afraid of are things that are outside of my control. Because I think that everything else is surmountable.
Charles: (42:21)
I want to thank you so much for joining me today. I think your personal story and your journey is just remarkable. And I think what you have learned from it and how you have evolved through it, is really special. And that and the combination of that and the company that you work for, which as I've said has such an important part of my life, just I think is a really powerful, really powerful combination. So thank you so much for sharing.
Julia Goldin: (42:42)
Thank you. It's great to talk to you. Thanks a lot and apologies for the dog.
Charles: (42:48)
Not at all. Never need to apologize for a dog.
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