“The Creativity Catalyst”
Simon Cook is the Managing Director of Cannes Lions. In my experience, it is the most valuable business week of the year, the convergence of people and ideas creating new networks of both the neural and personal kind.
Simon and the Cannes Lions team believe that creativity is a catalyst for business and personal growth. If you’ve listened to this podcast before you know that I do too. Passionately.
In fact it’s why this podcast exists. To unlock the most powerful fuel available to the business world - creativity - through the most valuable levers - business leaders.
This is not an easy challenge. It is not a straight line. For the simple reason that creativity confuses people.
Three Takeaways
The importance of a clear vision.
Simplify, simplify, simplify.
Understanding the contributions others want to make.
"FEARLESS CREATIVE LEADERSHIP" PODCAST - TRANSCRIPT
Episode 104: "The Creativity Catalyst" - Simon Cook
Hi. I’m Charles Day. And this is ‘Fearless Creative Leadership’.
Simon Cook is the Managing Director of Cannes Lions. In my experience, it is the most valuable business week of the year, the convergence of people and ideas creating new networks of both the neural and personal kind.
Simon and the Cannes Lions team believe that creativity is a catalyst for business and personal growth. If you’ve listened to this podcast before you know that I do too. Passionately.
In fact it’s why this podcast exists. To unlock the most powerful fuel available to the business world - creativity - through the most valuable levers - business leaders.
This is not an easy challenge. It is not a straight line. For the simple reason that creativity confuses people.
“Yeah, and I think some people think about creativity as a very exclusive club, almost. And actually as you say, it's an inherent human quality and sits within all of us.”
I am a crazy dog person and the death of one of my dogs this week has given me pause to reflect on her life. I wrote about Summer and the link to that piece is in this show’s description.
Summer was many, many things. But in the twelve years we shared, I can’t honestly say I saw her approach a problem creatively.
The ability to bring original thinking to solve problems is a uniquely human attribute. And unlocking the potential of creativity when you are the leader requires that you build an environment in which it can flourish.
In the most creative businesses, creativity comes from every corner of the organization. They are not clubs but cultures.
This does not happen by luck. It happens because those organizations are built on the same principles and practices. Practices that understand what humans need in order to express and apply their creative thinking on demand.
So, are you building a creative club or a creative culture?
And how do you know?
Here’s Simon Cook.
Charles:
Simon, welcome to Fearless. Thank you for joining me today.
Simon Cook:
Thank you. Thank you for having me. Pleasure.
Charles:
When did creativity first show up in your life? When did you first recognize that creativity was a thing?
Simon Cook:
Very, very early on. My mother was always very creative, and creative in times of limitation. So, being a single mother of three boys, she's a naturally creative person anyway, but that was really evident in her approach to parenting. So she didn't have much money. So you know, at Christmas, for example, rather than buying lots of presents for a stocking, she would invent a scavenger hunt so that by the time you get to the stocking, which was usually in her bedroom, the last clue would always be, now make your mom some breakfast in bed and bring it to her. I mean, we should've just gone, in future years, straight to the source.
But you know, we'd go through the adventure instead of the scavenger hunt, which was great fun. So, I don't think she realized that at the time. But she used creativity in times of limitation and restraint. And I think that's often when creativity flourishes the most, isn't it?
Charles:
For sure. What happened to your dad?
Simon Cook:
Dad? They separated when I was four or five.
Charles:
Wow.
Simon Cook:
Yeah.
Charles:
So really, I mean, really tough world for her.
Simon Cook:
Yeah, It was, it was really tough. She was a hero, yeah. She did a great job.
Charles:
Is she still around?
Simon Cook:
She's still around. She's still very creative.
Charles:
Were you a risk taker growing up?
Simon Cook:
I think looking back, at the time, if you'd asked me, I would say, "No, I'm not." I'm very by the book; but, I'm the youngest of three. So, if you know, to all the youngest out there, you probably know what I mean when I say you get away with murder, really. And so I was a bit of a risk taker, I guess. I was naughty, but well liked by the teachers, that kind of kid, if you know what I mean.
Charles:
Was creativity part of your education?
Simon Cook:
Yes it was. I grew up in Devon, in a very small school, and even if it wasn't part of the curriculum at the time, I felt they deliberately made space for creativity, whether that be creative play, creative problem solving, using your imagination, creative writing, that kind of thing. And a big emphasis on art. And my worry today actually, is that that's dropping off the curriculum.
So, I read recently, I can't remember where, there was a statistic that, usually around the age of nine they think, is when you get to a bit of a crossroads in creativity. You either are in an environment or an institution, which nurtures and helps that flourish within you, or it drops off.
Charles:
I did some work, years ago now, with Sir Ken Robinson, who's a huge advocate of the education system destroying or limiting kids' ability to be creative and talks along very similar lines and his contention that everybody in the world is born creative. And I want to talk about creative environments as we get into this a little bit. And I read something you said a little while ago about the best environments for the most creative companies are actually able to unlock creativity from everywhere across the organization. So, we'll come to that. But I think that, yeah, the responsibility of making sure that the innate creativity that exists, I think, as well, within everybody is a shared and collective responsibility.
Simon Cook:
Yeah, and I think some people think about creativity as a very exclusive club, almost. And actually, as you say, it's an inherent human quality and sits within all of us. I think it's just providing tools to help people unlock that. I mean that's very aligned to what you do in your business and certainly for us as well.
Charles:
Absolutely. As you went through your education, creativity continued to play a role?
Simon Cook:
It did, yes. I was perhaps not the most academic -
Charles:
Join the club.
Simon Cook:
I did a graphics degree and an English literature degree. I think I probably, looking back, would have gone to art school if I'd had my time again. But at the time I was given the choice of, you go to art school or you go traveling for a year, Simon, you decide. And being a 19 year old, I chose to travel the world and have a wonderful time. So, I don't regret that for a second.
Charles:
No, not at all. Fantastic. Where did you travel to?
Simon Cook:
Africa. Travel through Africa, Australia, parts of Asia. It was fantastic.
Charles:
Amazing.
Simon Cook:
Yeah.
Charles:
What did you learn on that journey?
Simon Cook:
I think coming from Devon and a small town, it was really my first experience of the world outside of that. So, it taught me a lot about culture and the differences there, and about creativity, the different ways people express that and how it can show up in different ways.
Charles:
There's nothing like waking up in a foreign world, you know, I remember, vividly, going to Rome as a five or six year old opening the shutters one morning and seeing this entirely different world out there; that's lived with me, obviously. The importance of travel to expand your perspective and to see the other side and the other possibilities.
Simon Cook:
Yeah, definitely. And it's interesting to see how technology is progressing in a way that supports that, because obviously not everyone has the privilege to be able to make those kinds of trips. So that's something that we've seen showing up in the work a lot at the festival recently. Democratizing access to take people to places that we'd never ordinarily get to go to.
Charles:
So what was your first foray into the working world?
Simon Cook:
A number of temp jobs before eventually working on agency side. I did a very short stint at Wieden and then Mother and then Cannes Lions. So I've been with the business for a very long time. I was 24 when I joined the business. So, I joined at a time when Phil Thomas, who's now the chairman of the business and was CEO for a very long time, 10 years, was running it.
He'd just stepped into that role and joined Cannes Lions when there were about 30 people. So, it's been quite a journey since then.
Charles:
How many now? How many people now?
Simon Cook:
It's over 200 globally.
Charles:
So it's a thing. It might stick around.
Simon Cook:
Let's hope so. I hope we have a similar conversation like this next year, Charles. But we'll see. We'll see.
Charles:
And pursuing English literature on one hand and design on the other, which of those did you orient towards?
Simon Cook:
I guess I would always prioritize the design side of things. So, that's probably the answer. The good gauge of that, I guess, and this is something that I was talking to someone about recently because they were talking about what was their passion, how do you really recognize what your passion is? And if you take it back to childhood, if you try and really remember a time where you, pardon my French, forgot to shit and eat because you were so immersed in what you were doing, remember that feeling. Like you get called for dinner, and you're almost annoyed. Because you're so into it, that would always be with something creative, creating something. Just loving the idea that you could put something new into the world and create, was always very exciting.
Charles:
Does that happen to you now?
Simon Cook:
I think it does, yeah. I think if you kind of extend that thinking about being able to put something new into the world, you could say I'm someone that likes to chase new things, new opportunities, to create, and that's been a big part of my working life here. I've had a different role every couple of years, and then this year took on a leadership role. But that's great because it now allows me to work with teams to help them create and hopefully unlock some of their creativity and see what they can bring to this long established business.
Charles:
And does that in your case, does that evolution come from you knocking on the door and saying to people, “I want to do something different,” or is that people coming to you and saying, “We want you to do something different”?
Simon Cook:
That's a good question. Probably a combination. The reason I've stayed here for so long is because it's a business that if you do put up your hand and you do spot an opportunity that they'll go, “Go on then. Go on, make it happen.” But also yes, I'm also someone that likes to do new things and introduce new things, which is in the same vein as creating, I guess.
Charles:
It's a testament, I think, to an organization when they are willing to support people's initiative. I think so many talk about it, and so few actually are willing to disrupt themselves. Obviously, as the workforce changes and evolves and, organizations, in general, had to come to terms and accept the fact that people aren’t going to stick around longer. I mean, when I was first walking into the creative industries, 10 years in a single company was not unexpected and probably pretty typical, actually. Now, 10 months is a long time in some cases, right? So, if you're not providing the right kind of environment for people there, they're not going to stick around.
Simon Cook:
And it is exactly that. It's about the environment you create. You know, when you're leading you want to protect your staff when you need to, but then simplify things that are overly complicated. That seems to be a big part of my job at the moment. But then also getting blockers out of the way because sometimes you see the kernel of an idea start with an individual, and they might have an idea, which is on the tip of their tongue, and it's just helping them express that, I think, and drawing it out of them and let them run with it.
Charles:
When you are working on something and working towards simplification, do you have a process by which you do that? I mean, again, I read something that you'd said at one point about getting down to the simplest, purest essence of the idea is whatever we're talking about, whether it's an ad or whether it's a new initiative within a company. Simplicity is at the heart of the best outcome.
Simon Cook:
Yeah.
Charles:
Do you have a process by which you are extracting all the stuff that's not important?
Simon Cook:
I think it's a learnt and organic process that comes with experience, but what I would say, and I think that the thing that you're referring to actually came from an observation from one of our jurors. And early on in my career here I was exposed to some of that, those judging sessions, which take place in Cannes live at the event every year, locked away in the depths of the past.
Charles:
Dark rooms. They come out slightly pallid don't they?
Simon Cook:
Yes, and after seven days, they have no windows. Yeah, if you think about lessons in leadership coming from unlikely places, that's definitely one for me. Being able to see 10 people in a room, who are the brightest minds in their industry, from different backgrounds, presided over by some kind of brilliant global CCO, the lessons that you can learn about leadership just by observing that. That's stuff that stayed with me, definitely. I'm able to draw upon.
Charles:
What are you seeing these days? Who are the most effective leaders? Not individually, but how do they show up? What do they do this different?
Simon Cook:
There's definitely a shift away from a carrot and stick mentality, for sure. I think, I mean as, as you all know, Charles, one of the words that has dominated at Cannes and in the industry for the last few years is purpose. Everything is about purpose. I think if you have a really strong vision, and you're able to instill a sense of purpose in everyone working around you, and have shared values about that purpose, then you don't need a carrot and stick because they'll want to do it for you, with you. And I'm seeing that being reflected in leaders that I encounter, but also in the way that juries are run at Cannes as well.
Charles:
How does that show up? It's an interesting insight. How does that manifest?
Simon Cook:
I think... specifically in the jury room?
Charles:
Yeah, I assume the jury itself creates its own purpose?
Simon Cook:
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So whereas maybe 10 years ago, it would've been very much about a very prestigious, usually male, at the time, chairperson president, having a very clear agenda about what they were going to get out of it. It's a very democratic process now. So with all juries, we don't force a criteria upon them because we believe that the awards in any given year captures a moment in time. And so, it's down to them to help define what they're going to award that year and what statement they're going to make to the industry about which at the Lion they're judging. So, they spend an awfully long amount of time, in some cases, PR jury, defining a criteria, anchors and a set of values and principles, which every single piece of work that is awarded has to adhere to, which I think is, well, it shows you a little bit about what's going on in leadership right now.
Charles:
What do you think are the most important characteristics of somebody walking into that situation as the jury president. President is the right term, right?
Simon Cook:
President, yeah. For office. I think that the ones that fare best are people who understand who's going to be in the room when they show up. They are people who set a clear vision for what needs to be achieved. They’re people who very deliberately give the introverts a voice, they draw out opinion from those people who, perhaps, they feel like they can share. They’re also people that are very good at quieting down those people who are perhaps a bit too outspoken.
Charles:
Are they involved in casting the jury?
Simon Cook:
Who? The presidents?
Charles:
Yeah.
Simon Cook:
No, that's-
Charles:
So, it's all-
Simon Cook:
They do in house.
Charles:
So you just put it all together.
Simon Cook:
Yes, exactly.
Charles:
Do you, I've never thought about this, do you take into account when you know of tension between jury members? I mean, is that kind of a consideration? Are you just looking at who are the right people, who are real experts in this field to put together?
Simon Cook:
First and foremost, it's about having experts in the room, the very best people in the world for that particular craft of discipline. But then we also take into consideration a holding company, network-
Charles:
Oh, interesting.
Simon Cook:
Countries, gender, ethnicity. So, many, many, many different lenses are applied.
Charles:
So you're trying to create the most balanced group of people you can.
Simon Cook:
The most balanced, the most diverse, and I think this year will probably be the year where we reach 50/50 in terms of gender on the juries.
Simon Cook:
About five years ago it was, it was about 20% women, and you're starting to see a difference in the work that's being awarded.
Charles:
How does that show up? What's the difference, you're saying?
Simon Cook:
Well, suddenly you have women in the room who have 80% buying power. So, the type of insights and opinions that they're bringing to the conversation are obviously going to result in perhaps a more balanced body of work as the lights go down at the award show each night.
Charles:
When you, as an organization, started to make that shift five years ago, as you say, how much of that, obviously, you can't tell empirically, but just from your own sense of it, how much of the shift was you just looking differently out to casting of a jury and how much of it was waiting for the industry to catch up and be able to provide people who were actually qualified to sit in the room?
Simon Cook:
It absolutely was proactive because-
Charles:
So they were there already?
Simon Cook:
They were, perhaps, already there. But then, I mean, it reflects a real life ratio that's going on. So we do have to work very hard to find these women to represent, because the nature of the industry and as it is.
Charles:
But it becomes self fulfilling, right? Because the more that are in the room, the more they're recognized for who they are and what they've achieved and what they are achieving, the more inspiration that provides other women, the more opportunity it creates across the industry.
Simon Cook:
Well, we try to do that and, as I said, we hopefully reach 50/50 in 2020. But alongside that, we also run a program, which you may have heard of, called See It Be It.
Charles:
I was a See It Be It mentor one year.
Simon Cook:
Ah, excellent. Was it the highlight of your week?
Charles:
It was four years ago. Three years ago. It was a very interesting, I'll tell you another time, it was a very interesting moment.
Simon Cook:
So that is a program where it's application based, you can apply from anywhere in the world, and it's for women who are probably just about ready to become a creative director. And we go through a selection process, there's obviously no fee involved, and then we will cover the expenses and fly those 12 women and give them an all-access, amazing experience at the festival where they get mentorship from people like yourself, they have backstage access, and the idea being that that accelerates them in some way.
Charles:
And I've seen it happen. I mean, Liz Hamer for instance, was part of the group that I mentored and to see her flourish, she was amazing.
Simon Cook:
Yes.
Charles:
Fantastic.
Simon Cook:
And some of those alumni, because it's been running for a while now, have been on our juries. So, there's a fantastic, fantastic-
Charles:
It's a great program.
Simon Cook:
-called Krystal Mullins, who works for RPA on the West coast in America. And just the determination and the fire that put in her belly is just so brilliant to see. So, she came to me a couple of years ago and said, "I'm going to be on one of your juries." I said, "I bet you are, but part of the criteria, Krystal, is that you have to have won a Lion." And I saw her in Cannes next year and she said, "Did you see how many I Won? 13." It's like, "Okay, fine." And then last year she was on the mobile jury.
Charles:
You're qualified.
Simon Cook:
Yes.
Charles:
So, you've got an interesting perspective on the industry. Tell me what you think are the characteristics that the most creative companies embody. What sets them apart in terms of how they show up, how they work, what's their central philosophy, if you will.
Simon Cook:
Okay, I think on the brand side, because that's probably where we see it the most at the moment, I think brands and marketers have now woken up to the fact that creativity is a lever in the boardroom. That it's a factor that can drive business. I think most people have heightened on to that now. I think what they're looking for now, and the companies that are doing it best, are looking at what are the conditions that I need to introduce in order to let that creativity flourish. And it comes from, first and foremost, creating some alignment across different functions about what good looks like. So it's not just about getting the creatives in the room, it's also about the CEO, the CFO, for sure.
And having all of those functions come together to understand, A, the potential and the impact of creativity when it's done well, and that's usually by looking at case studies for people who are already doing it well. And having a real commitment to it because it's hard. It's really hard to introduce that, and make it stick. But I think if you could introduce a language or a lexicon about creativity and a standard or a scale about what good looks like, that's a really good starting point.
Charles:
The issue of language is a really relevant and important one and it doesn't get talked about enough, I don't think. And I've gone into some companies who have overtly and consciously and proactively decided to develop their own internal language.
Simon Cook:
Yeah.
Charles:
Whether it's something like what is a brief? When we see brief, what do we mean? Is that the same as a remit for instance, right? Or an RFP. What do we mean by those things? The word producer means many, many different things, depending on where you come from. When we're talking about that, what are the skill sets that we imbue that with, that we think are important? And I have certainly seen growth inside companies who have that kind of clarity and commitment to, we're all going to talk about this in the same way as we all understand each other. Because I think that unlocking creativity also has a lot to do with creating confidence within an organization, right? That we are in this together, we are speaking the same language, we want the same outcome, to your earlier point. Are you seeing similar kinds of things?
Simon Cook:
Similar? Definitely similar kinds of things and I have to say your point about confidence and that ambition more often than not, has to come from one of these champions of creativity.
There's usually one figure that is trying to corral the rest into getting behind it. So it's important that you have that figure. If you look at what's happening with Burger King, for example, that's obviously Fernando Machado. But in some organizations, it can be someone, perhaps more junior, someone who can just see the potential and is just waiting for people to get behind them.
Charles:
So you think creativity has a champion within every organization, somewhere along the line? I mean, it may have more than one, but there has to be at least one.
Simon Cook:
There's usually one voice, I think, that is stronger than the others.
Charles:
It's pushing the envelope.
Simon Cook:
Absolutely.
Charles:
And what do you think are the characteristics of those people?
Simon Cook:
I think they’re people who recognize potential, or perhaps they've seen it done really well elsewhere, or they can see others doing it, and so, become frustrated because they're not able to replicate it because of the restrictions that are currently within a business. And so, what comes with that is fire and ambition and it's that that's infectious.
It's that that catches on. It's a bit like a junior creative going to their boss and saying, "I really want to win a Lion, and I think I can." Just having that ambition in the first place is enough because it means that they'll enter and if they're really lucky, that they'll win a Grand Prix, but that's unlikely. But they might walk away with absolutely nothing.
And it's the people that give up at that stage, where it can fizzle out and die. The people who are very successful at it are the people who go, "Do you know what? Just entering in and of itself, I've already committed to raise my creative bar." Because then, the human instinct kicks in and if you haven't won, what do you do? You look at the people who did, and then you start to recognize where you benchmark, where you fit in this world, and then you apply all of those learnings into the next cycle of the next year. And then you might get a Shortlist or a Bronze.
We did a piece of analysis across our 66 years worth of data. And the question was, how many years does it take to win a Lion? And on average, it's three. And it's exactly that cycle. And if you look at people who fit that profile of the three year rule, and you talk to them about what were the stages, it's always about stage one is belief. It's that champion, that someone with a desire who goes, "Do you know what? We might not win, but one day we can." And then it's about benchmarking. It's about where you sit in the world and then it's a breakthrough moment and that breakthrough may be winning a Grand Prix, if you're lucky. It may just be as simple as getting some kind of alliance with your own team and some shared value around the importance of creativity.
Charles:
Interestingly, we're talking a lot about the leadership of creativity, which is coming from brands. If we'd had this conversation five years ago, it probably would have been almost entirely oriented towards agencies. Without getting into a long dissertation about the shift around that, what I am interested in, your insights on, what do you think when someone like Fernando shows up, for instance, what are the kinds of things that people like him are doing in order to bring their agencies on that journey with them? What's the kind of environment they're creating? How would they lead in creativity?
Simon Cook:
I think, internally, before I talk about agencies, what they're doing is creating the case studies that allow them to get buy-in from their superiors. So, from the people in the boardroom. And you can see that in what Fernando's done over a period of time. He showed up in about 2014, I think, to take the reins of that brand, and they'd won a few Lions at that stage. Fast forward to 2018 and I think they took home over 40 Lions. And that's been done very precisely, building momentum over time by getting that onboarding piece right internally.
And then the thing that he does very well is, he makes the agency and the people on his side, the brand side, one team. So, it's about trust. It's about trust and understanding and an investment in, perhaps, longer term relationships. And, again, if you look at our data from Lions, you can see that people are almost twice as likely to win a Lion if they've been working with their agency for over a 10 year period, which says a lot about the level of creativity you can produce when you have that kind of strong bond and you're in it together.
Charles:
Which makes total sense, but it's also counter to the way the industry is moving. Away from retained relationships and much more towards project-to-project based relationships. What are you seeing in terms of how companies are reconciling that? I mean, can you do, without getting into the sort of the business structure of the relationship, do you think you can have a project-to-project relationship that unlocks creativity in the same way that a retained relationship does, for instance? Is it possible to do that?
Simon Cook:
Well, I think what people are doing is having multiple relationships with different partners and I think that's fine as long as that trust is still there. And let's face it, you know the industry has become pretty fragmented and the skill set is changing. So, you do need to bring in different experts for different projects.
Charles:
Which is one of the things brands are much better about these days, right?
Simon Cook:
Yeah.
Charles:
10 years ago, a brand didn't know how to engage with anybody except an agency because there was literally no capability to do that. Today, they built their own ability out, to be able to have multiple relationships, to your point.
Simon Cook:
Yeah, and I think that the panic over in housing is, it is a bit of a red herring, to some extent, because you know when you say in-housing, all you're really saying is, "What's your magic formula? What's your blend? How much of the stuff are you're going to get closer to because it's data that you own and you have better access to. And then who are the kind of key core partners that you're going to bring on board to be a part of your wider team?" That's all it means.
Charles:
And it will change all the time.
Simon Cook:
It's always changing.
Charles:
And needs to.
Simon Cook:
Yeah, it's constantly evolving, which is why we try to constantly evolve, which is why I like this job because there's always something new.
Charles:
So one of the evolutions you have gone through as an organization, I know that you've been principal, a principal architect of is putting themes around the content. One of the criticisms of Cannes over the years has been, there's just too much stuff. When I was talking to people who had a specific area of interest, they would be overwhelmed at Cannes by, “I don't know where to go. I'm missing all the stuff I want to.” And I think you've been trying to create more of a curator kind of approach. Talk to me a little bit about the value of that.
Simon Cook:
Yeah, sure. So, we've only had themes for two years. Before that, it was, if I'm honest, a bit of a free for all. You turn up and you navigate it and there wasn't much help, and you set your own agenda. But as Cannes has grown, it is difficult to navigate. And so, increasingly, people on the agency side and on the brand side are coming to us and saying, "Do you know what, you know the program best because you guys put it together. We are time poor. Also, we've had to go through ridiculous sign off process internally to even be here."
So, that's another thing we're seeing. We're seeing a shift around a focus on learning rather than being there for other reasons. “Can you help us put together the best itinerary so that every single moment we spend here is a value.” And we say, "Of course." And it's been a really nice thing to see because suddenly people are starting to have the kind of experience that a lot of people had been having any way, because you know they're veterans and they've worked out how to do it. But at a much earlier stage.
Charles:
Because it is overwhelming if you don't have some way of navigating it.
Simon Cook:
It is, yes.
Charles:
But there's so many different streams of stuff going on.
Simon Cook:
And that's why it's important we have themes for our call to content as well. So people aren't just coming up with anything but, so, the content team here talk with over 200 prominent people in the industry before we release our themes to get their feedback on what are the key questions that you need answering and that your business needs to know. And then that's how we carve out the themes. And then people are much better about supplying quality submissions because they have something to go on and it's much more focused.
Charles:
Yeah. And those just went out in the last week or so, right?
Simon Cook:
They did. They're now out there. So, we look forward to seeing what we get for 2020.
Charles:
What do you think, what do you think the future of Cannes looks like? Where would you predict Cannes will be five years from now?
What's the role that you want to play?
Simon Cook:
I would like there to be less of an on/off moment with Cannes. With Lions, shall I say, because Cannes is a city in the South of France. With Lions, I'd like to see us continue to be a partner in creativity throughout the year, whether that be through helping people by surfacing data about our industry or about them, specifically, because we have that archive of data. But also the way that it works, it seems to be at the moment, it's people come to the festival, they're inspired, they learn a lot. And if you're not careful, you go home and you get back to the office and you forget it all or you don't implement it. You don't embed it in any way.
So, I think we need to be better, and we're being asked this a lot at the moment, to help with that process and what can we do when people get back to the office to actually embed some of that learning. So, yeah, helping people, continuing to bring people together, events aren't dead by any means. As we were talking about earlier, the level of access that you can get to people at that festival when their guard is down, and I don't mean in a weird way, but just having the kind of conversations that you can on the Croisette, opens up-
Charles:
Is that sometimes literally on the Croisette.
Simon Cook:
On the Croisette itself, exactly.
Charles:
Walking down the Croisette.
Simon Cook:
Open up so many opportunities and we're in such a privileged position because I get to hear about these opportunities that come out of the festival all the time and it's lovely to hear. So, bringing people together, but then, I think, we'd like to be about giving people the tools and resources to actually help embed some of that learning and then if necessary, work with them throughout the year to help them unlock that potential.
Charles:
The podcast is called Fearless Creative Leadership. So, I would be remiss if I didn't ask you, what do you think gets in the way? You talked earlier about the link between creativity and business performance. Certainly, I endorse that fully. I think there is no more powerful business fuel than creativity and the capacity for creative thinking and problem solving. What do you see as the obstacles to that, what gets in the way of that happening?
Simon Cook:
Short term thinking. Short term thinking, lots of people are working on a quarterly basis. Not having the correct level of buy-in internally, not having that level of alignment internally, but also perhaps not having the energy or ambition or commitment to actually follow through with it because it's really hard to introduce that.
Charles:
As a concept.
Simon Cook:
Yeah, to make that shift. But, like I said, if you have those champions, it might be one person or a few. Like if you have someone within your organization that is telling you that that's the way you need to go, just give them a few more seconds and hear them out. Just listen to what they have to say because I've seen it done and it is transformational.
Charles:
How do you personally lead? I mean, obviously, as you've described earlier, you've grown in responsibility within the organization. You've created some really powerful new initiatives. How do you lead?
Simon Cook:
Gosh, carefully, thoughtfully, but with extreme conviction. I totally believe that you have to have a crystal clear vision and one that you articulate, and that is infectious, and that people want to get behind because then, as I said earlier, you don't have to worry about carrot and stick mentality because people just want to do it. They want to be on your team. Yeah, I think that's probably it.
Charles:
Do you go as far as creating purpose for yourself or for your team, for what you're trying to do? Do you get that explicit?
Simon Cook:
Yes. I think we're going through a process at the moment where we're sort of trying to crystallize it a bit. So, perhaps we can have another chat and I can walk through it with you, see what you think, Charles. But, yes, I think every single member of the team having a purpose, no matter how tangible, intangible, is just core. Otherwise, you're all just pointing in different directions, right?
Charles:
And what kind of people do you look to attract yourself? What are the characteristics of people who are able to unlock creative thinking?
Simon Cook:
I like a diagonal thinker. I like people who are smart and kind. I think I don't need to explain to what kind means. But, smart is a bit of a vague word, isn't it? I'm not talking about someone who has a ridiculous IQ. Quite the opposite, actually. I like people who are emotionally intelligent, are good with people, are kind to people, and have ideas in abundance and aren't afraid to bring them, because you have to accept that a lot of them will get shot down, but there's usually a few in there, but I just want to hear them. I just want to hear what ideas you have.
Charles:
What are you afraid of?
Simon Cook:
I used to be much more afraid of what people thought of me. That's something we all struggle with at some stage. But then I think you just get to an age, don't you, where you get over yourself and realize there's no point worrying about that because quite often people aren't thinking of you. They're too busy thinking about themselves. So, it's a fruitless task.
I am afraid, well, I'm in a very, very fortunate position in this job. I'm at the intersection of lots of different industries and as a result of that, we get thrown opportunities all the time, literally every day. And we're so grateful for that. But, I worry about missing an opportunity just because, yeah, I'd hate to let an opportunity pass us by because they come thick and fast and hopefully I'm making the right decisions about them.
Charles:
How do you filter those?
Simon Cook:
Well, it's got to be something that's aligned with our strategy and our values, but it's also about coming back to simplicity. We certainly don't want to get to a stage where we're just saying yes to everything because you do not want that one week in June, and increasingly throughout the year, to become cluttered and bastardized in any way, it needs to be super crystal clear. So, we choose very carefully for that reason.
Charles:
I wrap every episode with three themes that I've heard.
Simon Cook:
Okay.
Charles:
Let me throw, let me throw these at you. One is, and you talked about this a couple of different times, you work towards a vision, your intention. You're trying to create something specific and you're clear about what that is and always trying to get clearer about what that is. Two is, we touched on this briefly, but, I think this desire of yours and this ability of yours to simplify it down, so, is this doing this thing, helping us towards that, and is this the best, sharpest way to do that, is a very powerful tenant, I think, of the best leaders. And then third, there's a couple of pieces of this that are related, I think, one is you’re present. There's a sort of real intimate connection and I think you're clearly genuinely interested in what is going on with other people and how you can create an environment in which they can contribute to the thing that matters to you. How do those resonate?
Simon Cook:
Yeah, it's very flattering, Charles. It's a good party trick. Yeah. Yeah. I think they do resonate. Thank you for observing them.
Charles:
Thank you for joining me today. I've really enjoyed this, Simon. Thank you.
Simon Cook:
Yeah. Absolute pleasure. Thanks, Charles.
