Suzy Deering of Ford
What Are Your Priorities?
"FEARLESS CREATIVE LEADERSHIP" PODCAST - TRANSCRIPT
Episode 222: Suzy Deering
Here’s a question. What are your priorities?
I’m Charles Day. I work with creative and innovative companies. I’m asked to coach their leaders and their leadership teams. To help them succeed where leadership has its greatest impact. The intersection of strategy and humanity.
This week’s guest is Suzy Deering. Most recently, she was the Global Chief Marketing Officer of Ford. Before that, she was the Global CMO of eBay. She’s held senior positions at Verizon and Home Depot. And she’s been recognized as one of Business Insider’s “Top 50 Most Innovative CMOs.”
The demands of those kinds of jobs can make you lose yourself.
Holding on to who you are and being clear about what really matters, does not happen easily - or by accident.
“It was when I left Verizon and I went to work at Home Depot, and I realized I had to start from scratch. Nobody knew me. And so that became the place where I felt like I needed to describe myself to everybody else so they didn't have to guess. And so that was the first time I really sat down and gave it thought as to what were my priorities? What was it, if I was going to tell somebody, ‘You needed to know something about me’”?
Suzy’s priorities are God, family, and work. In that order. She has said so, many times. On at least one occasion, as you’ll hear, she was told that her priorities were a problem for some of the people that worked with her.
She is so clear and certain about her priorities that when she joined Ford, she shared them in a document with her team.
Suzy’s priorities are not mine. And they may not be yours. But they are hers.
What makes them remarkable, in my experience, are two things. She knows what they are, and she states them publicly.
I believe the very best leaders share a common truth. They say what they mean and they mean what they say. Which builds trust for the people willing to join you on the journey.
Saying what you mean and meaning what you say become very much easier when you know what matters to you.
I’m curious to know if you do?
Send me an email at charles@fearlesscreativeleadership.com if you know your priorities and if you’re willing to share them.
And if you’re uncomfortable doing so, maybe ask yourself why.
Here’s Suzy Deering.
Charles (02:35):
Suzy, welcome to Fearless. Thank you for coming on the show.
Suzy Deering (02:38):
Thank you. It's so great to be here.
Charles (02:41):
When did creativity first show up in your life? When were you first conscious of creativity in your life?
Suzy Deering (02:46):
I think the first time it showed up is when... just off the cuff when I think about that question, when I was five years old, we went to Disney for the first time. And it was right when the parks opened.
And I remember being, even at that young age, being just absolutely enthralled with just the overall, the feeling that you've got from every action, of getting into the monorail, going into the parks. And I remember looking at my mom as we were leaving and I said, "I want to be the voice of the monorail." And (laughs) my mom was like, "Well, I don't know how many of those jobs there are. But okay, well, let's see kind of where that goes."
And the reason why I think that that's maybe the spark of creativity is, it was, I think, creativity comes from the standpoint of also pushing yourself to think differently. And obviously as a child and nothing around me would have ever sparked that as to be a thought. So, I think just that's what comes to mind when you ask that question right off the top of my head.
Charles (03:44):
Were you a risk-taker as a kid?
Suzy Deering (03:47):
I don't think so. I don't think so. I mean, I think… I grew up in very humble beginnings, surrounded by a lot of love and surrounded by a lot of very strong women. And maybe risk was just already inherent in how we lived because of just, you know, we worked hard, and I watched my mother and my grandmother provide for us in ways that now, I look at and I feel like I've cheated my family in some regards because they've had it a little bit easier.
So maybe the risk was already kind of embedded in how, you know, how we lived. But I wouldn't necessarily put a title on me to say that I was a risk-taker.
Charles (04:26):
If you, as you look back at your childhood.… I haven't asked this question for a while. If you look back at your childhood, what was the biggest takeaway?
Suzy Deering (04:35):
My biggest takeaway is that strength came in very different ways than financial. I mean, we lived in Miami. We didn't even have air conditioning. So, if you think about that, in that in Miami, Florida, you can't imagine now being in a place without air conditioning. And yet that was just... that was how we lived. And it was just because we just didn't have the means to provide that way.
And I think that we didn't take things for granted. My mother worked. That was very unusual. I grew up with a lot of kids around me that had a lot of money, had a lot of wealth. And I had other kids who were very middle class families. But there was one, one consistent truth which was all their mothers were at home.
And so, I think that just watching and living around strong women and watching that we never did without from a love and a support perspective really shaped my thinking and really helped develop in a way that I probably didn't realize it until I was older and looking back.
Charles (05:36):
I read somewhere that you gave an interview in which you said you have three priorities in life: God, family and work.
Suzy Deering (05:43):
Yes.
Charles (05:44):
Where did those priorities come from?
Suzy Deering (05:47):
Definitely from my upbringing. Faith was always very consistent in our home. And it didn't mean always going to church, although we did. There was a period of time that I could tell you, I remember getting up every Sunday morning, every Sunday evening, we went to church. In between Sunday morning service and Sunday evening service, we had family dinner together. And then we were there for children's activities on Wednesday nights.
And I went to a private Christian school when I lived in Miami. I chose to go to a public school when we moved from Miami to Atlanta, Georgia. And that was very intentional. And so I think that it was always consistent. What that looked like for me as I went to college and then on to being married and having a family has definitely evolved. However, it's been very clear that there's still a purpose and Christ is definitely center for us as a family.
And I watched that, my grandmother was absolutely a source of strength for that. She was the person who people just... she pulled you in. And a lot of that was because she had such faith, that part of it was you could feel that, that pull. She also had incredibly beautiful blue eyes that sparkled when she looked at you that just in that in itself just made her so much more warm and caring.
So I think it started there. I think the second piece was family. I mean, if I look back, to your question about really, what were the things that I took away, family. We had a lot of friends. I had a lot of friends. But our family, we had a very large extended family. I was very close to my cousins. I was very, very close to my aunts and still am today. And so, family was just absolutely essential.
And then the work part of it was, I watched how hard my grandmother worked and, and the roles and jobs that she took on and companies that she helped lead and grow. Same thing with my mom. So I think it shaped….
Did I articulate that? I didn't articulate that until long into my career, actually. And it was when I made a... this is where I also believe that being uncomfortable is some of the best thing that can ever happen to you because it forces you to think differently. And it makes you really pay attention to what matters and to redefine.
And it was when I left Verizon and I went to work at Home Depot and I realized I had to start from scratch. Nobody knew me. And so that became the place where I felt like I needed to describe myself to everybody else so they didn't have to guess. And so that was the first time I really sat down and gave it thought as to, what were my priorities? What was it if I was going to tell somebody, "You needed to know something about me?"
Charles (08:20):
And you declared those openly and overtly when you got there.
Suzy Deering (08:23):
I did. I was very clear. My very first townhall with my team, I shared that my priorities were God, family and work in that order. And that if the first two things got messed up, the third thing would suffer dramatically. I shared the story of how my husband and I met, what was important to us as a family. I shared pictures and activities, what my kids were interested in.
And I also have this ‘Ways of Working with Suzy.’ So, through having great executive coaches throughout my career and so forth, and just great mentors around me, I know that there's certain things that I sometimes can have blinders on that I have to consciously work at. And so I just would lay it out there. I'd say, "I'm going to take all the guessing out of this because I want us to get on and build a relationship." And it's only best to do that, I felt like, if I could share some of those kind of inside baseball things about me.
Charles (09:21):
I want to dig into this a little bit because it's one of the recommendations I've made to a number of people that I've worked with over the years which is this sort of statement of declaration. "This is how I lead. These are the things that you should know about me. This is how to get the best out of me. This is what I expect of you."
Can you talk a little bit more about that ‘Working With Suzy’ set of guidelines? How did you first of all articulate them? And how were they received?
Suzy Deering (09:41):
So, how did I, one, I think define what they were, defining them and determining kind of what would I share? One was going through and thinking about my working relationships with either my supervisors or leaders, and then those around me, my peers. And so, I started thinking, like, "It would be great to know if I knew X, Y and Z, it would make it so much easier."
S, I would start there and then think about, "Okay, well, what does that mean for me?" And I'll give a little sense of, I think there's little things that we as leaders can share that would take so much ambiguity out of it.
Give you a couple examples. I would tell my team, "I am the best when you text me. If you need an answer to something, the best way to get me is to text me. If you send me an email, that's okay. But it's going to be best if I can actually read the entire email on my cell phone. Because if I can't, I'm probably going to skip it and move on. So, text me.”
Nine times out of 10, I believe that email is an enemy. I think that we use it more for CYA purposes than we actually do as the proper communication tool. So I would be very clear about that.
So there were little simple things about that, is where was the best communication so it didn't create concern. Because if somebody sent an email and I didn't reply, were they like, "Oh, no, she didn't like that idea," or, "She's not getting back to me." And so, I would hear from people that it just helped them.
The second thing, a second bucket were things that I had learned and knew from feedback that I had been given to me by people that I worked with and even my peers. Which, one example of that was, I thought that I had to try and protect all the time, protect my team. And I was very reluctant, often, to delegate.
And because I'm inherently a problem solver, the challenge was, I didn't know this, but I was stealing people's joy. Because they would come to my office or come to me and say, "Suzy, this is a challenge that we're having." As soon as they would say it was a challenge they were having, I went into solve mode. I would almost tune out whatever they were saying. So now I've broken the listening role, was not listening. And I would go into solving it. That was what they were asking for.
So if I constantly was trying to solve the problem, I wasn't giving them the opportunity to actually do their best and to solve it. So, that became one thing that I would always put in my ‘Ways of Working With Suzy’ which was, "Look, I know this so you need to signal to me. I've got this thing I need to run by you. I don't need you to do anything." If you say that to me, it's a trigger. And I will start going into active listening mode.
And so I think that it's, the way that I would break it down is, one, what are the things that you wish somebody had told you that could have made it a lot easier just to actually get the basic fundamentals of working together? Two, be prepared to take the advice for input of things that you're not good at, and it's going to take constant work. And be able to put that out on the table for others to help you on an ongoing basis.
And then the third piece of it I think is, when I think about in the ‘Ways of Working With Suzy,’ you have to be prepared that those are my things. That doesn't mean that my expectation is everybody else works that way. I kind of learned that a hard way. But I think that that's just as critical, is to make sure that you understand that it's a... this is defining who I am. Now let's figure out how does that work in the combination of different styles.
Charles (13:32):
How were they received?
Suzy Deering (13:34):
Very well received in many audiences. I will tell you, I had one company that I went to, and I had HR call me after the very first meeting. I had not even officially started. I had gone to meet my team. And it was a very large group, global group. And I shared it. And I always share it in the sense of, these are my personal priorities.
And when I shared them being God, work and family, and then I started going through, "Here's what I can tell you about me," I was amazed because there were a lot of people in the audience that actually immediately raised their hand or asked to comment. And that so many of them were like, "Thank you, thank you for sharing."
And then there was the after. I got a call from HR and they said, “We have a problem.” And I said, "And what is that?" And they said, "You offended many people because you shared that God was important to you. And that's not everybody's belief system." And I was very quick to say, "Look, I didn't... I'm not forcing it on them." And I was very clear to say that.
If you want to ask me about who I am, just as much as I'm going to describe myself with brown hair and blue eyes, that's how I describe myself. And if that's the problem, then this may not work out, because I only know to be me. And so.… And I've had that happen twice.
But I will tell you, I've had more people comment on - both senior leaders and peers as well as people that have worked on my team - that they appreciated it, because it was human. And, I guess in some cases, it was a little risky.
Charles (15:18):
And you weren't asking other people to follow your religious beliefs.
Suzy Deering (15:21):
No.
Charles (15:21):
You were simply stating, “This is who I am.”
Suzy Deering (15:23):
That's exactly right.
Charles (15:24):
Do you think you'd get canceled today?
Suzy Deering (15:28):
I think I could possibly get canceled. I think any of us are vulnerable to that. So I wouldn't put it out of the question.
Charles (15:37):
Have you ever suffered from imposter syndrome?
Suzy Deering (15:39):
Yes. I fight imposter syndrome all the time.
Charles (15:45):
How did you find the courage to be willing to stand up and say, "This is who I am. This is how to work best with me. This is what I know about myself," which requires a certain amount of self-confidence, to be able to willing to say that. And battling impostor syndrome at the same time. Do you know where you are able to move through that lens and say, "You know what, I am prepared to stand up here and say this is who I am"?
Suzy Deering (16:07):
I think that there was a moment in my career that… when I left one company that I had been at for very, very long time, and I was well-respected, and you'd realize, again, being comfortable. Because I could take on any role in that company and it wasn't me starting from scratch.
And I had been there for almost 13 years, 14 years. And then I had two years prior to that working on the business, on the agency side. So it was comfortable. It was easy. It was, again, you'd built up your reputation.
And then I moved to a different role, or a different company. And knew nobody, and I started from scratch. And so, starting from scratch, I remember that, that was what I referred to earlier, too, which is that's where I realized that I had to take on this, you know, define who I was for everyone because I was starting from scratch.
I think at that point is when I realized that, I don't know that I would give myself credit to say that was self-confidence. I think it was more, it made it... Maybe I almost felt like that was making it easier for me because I could just tell people straight on who I was. And if they didn't like it then, okay, we got that out of the way, right?
And also, during my time there, and over my career, I've worked for people who have not been great leaders. And what I found in a lot of those cases is they suffered from self-confidence that they expressed it very... it came out very differently.
And so I think maybe at that point is when I realized there has to be a different way. We all are going to struggle with some type of confidence issue. And then that was when I started realizing this imposter syndrome of, "Oh my heavens, maybe somebody will find me out that I'm not the smartest in the room," or, "I don't understand that part of the business or the company or whatever."
And I think that because of that shift to where I had to be uncomfortable to realize that I needed to build up my credibility and my value, gave me the confidence maybe to then understand where my weaknesses were or what I needed to face every day.
Charles (18:20):
Where do you think your imposter syndrome comes from? What drives it?
Suzy Deering (18:24):
I know I'm very hard on myself. I'm told very often, and my husband is probably one of the best for keeping me in check. Because I will self-critique, break myself down, overthink things, either if it's a decision that was made, or if it's a meeting that I had, or a speech that I give, whatever it may be. I will go back and I will critique it to a fault.
And I think that it's been through that that made me realize that that's probably because it really comes from... it's not me trying to be perfect. It's just I'm.… I want to make sure that I'm succeeding and that I'm delivering and that it's worth it.
It's actually really interesting because it's not so much that it's worth it to me but that it's... that I'm contributing value. If I don't feel like I'm contributing value, that's a really hard thing for me to grasp. And so I think that's where it comes from because I know that I have this high bar that I set for myself, and that therefore, it makes me self-doubt. And that's where the imposter syndrome comes from.
Charles (19:40):
And how do you define making an impact? How do you define creating value?
Suzy Deering (19:46):
I think it depends on the environment. I think it depends on the situation. In business, it has to be growth, it has to be outcomes, you know, solid business outcomes. From a professional standpoint, just even working with people. Like, I love and I get great reward when I see especially people who maybe they don't believe that they can do it, they don't have the self-confidence, but you know that there's just that spark in them that can... with just a little bit of push and a little bit of empathy and giving them the spirit, that they can thrive.
I love that. There is nothing more joyful for me to be able to see people really respond and grow that way. I love being able to be a contributing partner within turnarounds. And one of the things that I do well for whatever reason has been turnarounds and transformations.
And when I look at what my role needs to be on that team, and being able to provide the value back, and to be able to then see really the outcome of it, both from how a team can work together in a very, very unique way to actually solve those problems, is very fulfilling.
Charles (20:59):
This may be a really unfair question, but do you think that feeling or that sense of, “I want to make a difference to the lives of the people around me,” which is, you're actually the third female leader in a row that I've interviewed over the last three weeks. And each of you have now said that. I don't think it will be accurate to say that I've never heard any of my male guests say it. But I'm conscious that three women in a row have said it. Do you think it's an attribute or a trait that women find more naturally than men?
Suzy Deering (21:27):
I don't know if it's gender-driven. I think that it's situational, maybe, or just environmentally driven. Which… the reason why I say that is because I think we're an environment now from a…. I'm not going to say just within the professional environment, but just even in the personal environment. When I think about my home and the way that as things continue to evolve and maybe more women taking on more leader- leadership positions and being in a place that they can influence from the top and from the sides. Maybe that is where it's coming from.
But the reason why I pause there is because I think about my husband. And my husband is a very empathetic and an incredible person that, you know, he chose to leave his golf profession to stay home with the children. And one, it was because we knew that for our marriage and for what we wanted for our kids, that was the best option. And it wasn't... we weren't in a financial position that that was going to come easy.
But why I said that is because he felt he wanted to make a difference. And he wanted to make a difference in their life. And so I look at that and I think maybe it's less about... maybe women are just more comfortable talking about it, to your point. But I think we're starting to see more and more men that are showing it. Maybe they aren't as open to talking about it but they're showing it. And maybe that's always been there but we've just never celebrated it.
Charles (23:01):
I think what you're making me think about is the fact that we judge business success forever based on performance metrics, profit, loss, so on. And I think as the world changes faster and faster and faster, and clearly it's changed a lot in the last three years, the definition of business success is changing, has to change and is changing. And we have to have a more holistic view about what business success looks like.
And part of that definition I think increasingly has to be how well are we doing by the people that work for us for the length of time that they work for us. And I think leadership will start to get measured more and more and more on that basis, because without that, the ability to drive financial performance is probably negligible going forward, certainly in the kind of businesses that you and I tend to spend our time with.
Suzy Deering (23:48):
That resonates 100%. And I wholeheartedly believe that there's been a lot of younger people watching during these last three years, when the world became equalized, in many ways. Everybody, humanity came out whether you wanted it to or not. For the CEO who always wanted to come in and look perfect in his or her position, all of a sudden, we were in their home. It was all just equalized.
And I think what's fascinating to me about that is, to the point you're making, is we have... my children, who have always known what I do professionally, been involved to one level or another, they knew the people that I worked with. But they had a first row seat, watching and listening. And all of a sudden, you know, here, my son's 20 and my daughter's 24.
But all of a sudden, I would come out from meetings and they'd be like, "Who was that person that was just being so awful and mean? And why were they acting like that? Why didn't they... why were they asking the same question and they knew that the way the tone that they were using, nobody was going to come forward with a response that was going to be helpful?"
And it was mind-blowing to me because they were now first row to leadership. They were first row to business but in a very different way than to your point how we measure success. And I look at both my son and my daughter and many others that I've talked to professionally, especially on the women's side to say, "What did your kids.… How did they react? What are they asking now?"
And I think we have this massive reset button that's being hit, to where the expectations are, you know what, I really want to work hard for the person who's not going to kick me in the teeth every two seconds, but the one who's going to be very authentic, who's going to be empathetic, who's going to be transparent about how they feel, and then enable me to be better at what I do.
And I think that is… I think there's going to be a lot of companies. And especially because we're going to be in this transition stage for a while for what just happened over the last three years. And I think the winners are going to be the ones who have leaders that realize that they have to change their leadership style and be a lot more human and a lot more authentic and a lot more transparent.
Charles (26:10):
Yeah, I agree with that entirely. I think that the idea of partnership, leadership is actually going to become—
Suzy Deering (26:15):
Yes.
Charles (26:15):
—very important, right? Where it's not an equal partnership, because I think somebody at the end of the day has to be willing to make the tough call in the tough moment. But the ability to actually extract the best out of yourself and each other, which also means you have to be willing to be vulnerable about the things you don't do very well and allow somebody else in the group who does do that well to step forward and be able to play a really significant role.
And I think that the change from hierarchical to that—
Suzy Deering (26:38):
Right.
Charles (26:39):
—is going to be really important. So I think there's going to be a real sea of change and what, to your point, what leadership looks like and needs to look like.
Can we just go back for one minute to imposter syndrome because I know so many people that listen to this podcast struggle with it. How do you deal with that on a moment-by-moment, day-to-day basis? When you're confronted in a big moment, do you find it standing up and standing in front of you and you have to move past it? How does your relationship with it work on a day-to-day basis?
Suzy Deering (27:08):
So maybe the right way to think about it is an in-the-moment situations and the after moment, and then there's the thinking about what is the potential to happen. And the reason why I say that is because if I think back and reflect and I've done a lot of reflection over the last six months to understand where I have been my best.
And so if I take the in-the-moment, in the moment, I do rely a lot on my faith. And, I will very quickly... I believe 100% in mindset is everything. I believe that if you think that you've got it and you tell yourself you've got this and you, wherever you can gain your strength and put that thought in your mind, then it can suppress what the other pieces, which is the imposter piece that's going to put such self-doubt there.
So in-the-moment is really important. And I'll give one little snippet here that when, just recently, when I left Ford, that was a really hard time, because when I knew that I had to tell my team, my direct reports, I knew I was not going to emotionally stay together. Because we had done some amazing work in two years. And we had been through a lot in two years. And so these were people who I cared about dearly.
And I got up that morning, and when I did my devotion and my quiet time, one of the things I did was I put a sticky note on my computer that just, I put words on there that I knew that if I reflected and pointed to those words, that it was going to take my mind into a better place. And so I still have them up in my office because I knew that that was what I needed, just so that I could just stay focused and know that I could suppress any self-doubt that would come through. So that's in the moment.
I think that the after, which is where I would tell you probably most of mine comes from, because of what I shared earlier in the sense of how hard I am on myself and the critiquing of it, I will look and determine what are the things that I really believed that I could’ve changed that would have really made a difference in whatever it was I was doing, whether it was my leadership skill or something. And usually if I can confront that honestly, then it helps me work through the imposter syndrome.
The other thing is that I've also been very open about telling people, going back. If it's something from a leadership standpoint that I know I acted in a way because there was some self-doubt there, or I was second-guessing myself and maybe the tone that I used or the approach I'd used or whatever it may have been. I will go back to that person and say, not all the time but I have done it, where I've gone back and said, "I just want to apologize because that wasn't right."
So I think that there's the after moment. It really helps you, actually, I think, if you're willing to let yourself go there. And that's (laughs), that's the hardest part of this, is you have to be willing to let yourself know that you have to confront it. And then the forward-looking, which, I will tell you, I haven't mastered. I think now at this stage of my career where I am and even being in the state of flux between where I wanted to really take some time to understand and reflect where have I been my best, I have really fought this impostor syndrome.
And that's been really difficult. And I do a lot again, I talked to a lot of people about it that I trust, that I know aren't going to use it against me. That's really important, because there will be people that will use, if you're transparent about it, that you have to be careful there'll be people that could potentially use it against you. But I really do lean on others around me to help, that can then take away or give me something to replace that with. But that's where I can tell you I don't have the answer yet.
Charles (31:12):
It's in the silence, right, that it really shows up. It's when you don't have the immediate problem, you don't have the audience, you don't have the challenge in front of you that—
Suzy Deering (31:20):
That's exactly right.
Charles (31:21):
Yeah, that's when it gets really tough. Linking that through, so between your faith and imposter syndrome, what's your relationship with fear?
Suzy Deering (31:31):
Oh, fear. And I've heard from many of your podcasts that this is an interesting word when it comes up. I think a little fear keeps you on your toes. But fear for the most part is paralyzing. It wrecks more things. It wrecks relationships. It wrecks your mindset.
And so I think fear has to be addressed. That's not just a personal thing. Fear starts to exist not just in your own head, but environments give you fear. And I think this is going back to your, to the point on what type of leadership is the right leadership for where, where we go next. I think this is going to be one of the biggest areas that has to be addressed, because the more that fear can be eliminated in organizations and that individuals feel comfortable in the sense that they can share more openly.
That doesn't mean that there's still not correction or bad behaviors that don't need to be addressed. That absolutely does need to be there. But when I think about with our children - and by no means am I saying that I'm a parent of the year - but, like, when I look at.… My husband and I when we decided to have children, we said that our marriage was going to come first, because the healthier our marriage was and the stronger that we stayed connected…. And part of this is because I came from a broken home and I did not have a father figure.
And I saw what… his father was my father that I never had. And so we decided that we were going to, it was going to be our marriage first and then our children. And I will tell you, I have shared that. And I can tell you I've got many friends who think I'm the worst person in the world because why would you not put your kids first?
Our belief was is that the more that we created that strength in connection, the healthier it was going to be in the environment for our children. So even when they did something wrong, even when there was a moment of bad judgment, that there would be safety for them to come to us. And we talked about that a lot as far as, it doesn't mean I'm always going to like what you do but I'm still going to love you.
And so I think of the same thing in the principle of how do you take that into a work environment? Because I think that there's a lot of fear and even now because so many people are working remotely and you don't have the same central areas that people are coming together, I think it's one thing that has to be addressed very openly and directly.
Charles (33:59):
Yeah, I agree with you. I think, I think that fear has a slightly broader role, depending on your perspective, and that for some people, it is absolutely a catalyst.
So I have seen it used positively. But I think, to your point, you have to be clear about your relationship with it. And I'm... it's so interesting when I ask the question how many different answers I get. And I think how few people have really sat and wrestled with that question, which, actually, in many ways is probably as fundamental a question any of us get to deal within in the course of our lives.
As you look back so far, obviously you have many chapters left to write, but as you look back so far, do you have any regrets?
Suzy Deering (34:36):
Yes. Most of my regrets are how I may have… in some cases, they're how I acted in certain circumstances, where maybe my leadership wasn't at its best and I didn't like who I was becoming. And I can think of very clear points in time in my career and past that those are very significant regrets for me.
I'm thankful to say that I don't have any regrets even in decisions that I've made on roles I've taken and places I've worked or people that I've worked for, because each one of those, whether it was leadership that I wanted to model or leadership that I wanted to ensure that I never modeled, it taught me something.
But I do know that I failed. And many times I failed in places that I look back and I've regretted. I can't change it but I can change, moving forward. And then on the family and personal side, I had somebody say to me one time... And this is really hard, and I think that, I think, again, going back to kind of the leadership that needs to now be in place. And I don't believe in balance, and work-life balance, everything else. I just don't think that that's reality.
I think it is harmonizing. But I think at the end of the day there are moments that you're making decisions that I think there's a different outcome which you really want and that's what you should stick with. I'll give one example. I had somebody say to me, "The next time that you leave the house where you think you're going to be late to that meeting, and you know that you're not going to see your children for the next couple of days because either you're traveling or you're going to be at meetings and then dinner meetings, everything else.
Before you run out that door, if your gut says, ‘Go back, say the goodbye,’ or, ‘Go get the extra hug,’ or, ‘Go read the book,’ go do it." And I remember thinking, "That's crazy because I can't be late (laughs)." And there are two points in my career that I can point to very distinctly where that gut check came for me. And I went back and I spent... that morning, I curled back up in the bed, said the proper goodbye, read a book.
Or one time when my daughter was going through some very, very tough, a very tough moment and I just decided that day I wasn't going to work. And I was like, "This is it. It's family time. The four of us are spending it together." And I knew, yes, was that going to create more work for me, over the next few weeks and was that disruptive for people and everything else. But I was very transparent as to why. I didn't say I was sick. I said, "I have a family thing I need to deal with. And here's what I just ask for appreciation on your understanding."
And I think that those are the things that I look at and I go, "I hope others... especially when I talk to young parents where they're struggling with trying to understand not doing a bad job, which again impacts their other job if they feel that they're not succeeding at that.
And those are the things that I always sit them down and go, "You know what, I couldn't even tell you what the meetings were that I missed that day. And I couldn't tell you the meeting that I was late to." But I can tell you exactly the outcome or the input or the feeling and the emotion that I have from what took its place.
Charles (38:00):
That's such a powerful and important perspective, I think, because we get so caught up in the immediacy of the importance of something. And yeah, you're right. If you roll the clock forward, sometimes days or weeks, you can't remember what that thing was at all.
It actually is a perfect segue to a question that I've started asking more recently, which is, how do you view the relationship between leadership and disappointing people?
Suzy Deering (38:24):
I think that those two things go hand in hand. Look, being a leader doesn't mean that you're not going to disappoint people. Actually in many cases, leadership is actually meant to be disappointing.
And again it's interesting because I was just having this conversation. If you look at some of the best in the world when it comes to customer service, if you've spent any time with them, they will tell you it's not because they tried to answer and satisfy 100% of their customers 100% of the time.
You know, my husband was told when he was in the golf business that, "If you satisfy and keep 90% of the customers happy, just make sure the same 10% is the one that keeps getting disappointed or whatever." Where I think the disappointment comes in with leadership is when it's not consistent. Meaning a decision or an action doesn't match what they had stated or said. That's where disappointment comes in. And I've watched that firsthand.
And I've done a lot of reflection of the empty words that we would say and what we learned as a child that said, "Walk the walk," or, "Walk the talk," or, "Actions are louder than words." But do we really take that to heart in leadership? Because very often what leaders say and then the actions and decisions that they make that disappoint people are completely opposite of what's coming out of their mouth.
Charles (39:55):
Yeah. There's a 360 tool that I use in my practice with a lot of my clients. And the pivot point around which, from my perspective, it's built, are two references. Do you say what you mean and do you mean what you say? And I think leadership starts with that reference point.
Suzy Deering (40:10):
Yes, absolutely.
Charles (40:13):
You've had incredibly high-powered jobs at incredibly visible, high-powered companies. What are those jobs really like? Most of us are never going to have those roles. What are those jobs really like? Marcel Marcondes was on a little while ago and I asked him that question.
Suzy Deering (40:25):
Yes.
Charles (40:26):
And he said, "Sometimes it's terrifying." Did you find that?
Suzy Deering (40:30):
(laughs) I love Marcel. Yes, it can be terrifying. I will also tell you that, very early in my career, which I never saw myself, people ask me that all the time, "Did you see yourself at this role at these titles and companies?" And I was like, "No," or, "No, I didn't."
But I had somebody early in my career say to me, "Never get caught up in your own press." And at the time, I didn't really understand what that meant. But wow, now, I really understand what that means. And it's not the headline, it's what others say and I've heard some of the folks that have come on and talk to you about what other people cast on you as to the expectations.
But look, I think, I had a role that I was attacked publicly - in a smaller kind of environment - but attacked publicly and they attacked my family. And that was really, really difficult. Because it did again go back to questioning, was I making the right decisions for me personally, but was I also making the right decisions within the company I was at the time?
But I then realized, somebody said to me, "If somebody is that vocal and has that much to share and say, then you must be hitting on the right things, because it means that nobody's gone there and that's why the company needed to have this transformation." And so I think that, yes, when you're in these positions, it can be very frightening. And I totally agree.
But I also look at it and go, "I'm not bigger than a company. I'm one person." And it's not about Suzy Deering. It's about, what is the team doing? What are we doing for the good or for the transformation or for the innovation or for just the success of us as humans and the success from a business perspective?
So I think we all need a little dose of humility when we're in those roles that we can't take our take ourselves too seriously because (laughs) the reality is, we're just a person.
Charles (42:26):
And the company will be there long after—
Suzy Deering (42:27):
Yes.
Charles (42:28):
—long after we're gone.
Suzy Deering (42:30):
As long... I do believe, great advice given to me said, "Whatever you do, always strive to leave it better than you got it." And I can say proudly that that was really great advice, because I do feel very confident that I have left it better than when I've received it. Does that mean that's a headline for me? No. That's what makes me put my head down on my pillow at night and suppress the imposter syndrome with knowing that I did okay.
Charles (43:01):
Last two questions for you. How do you lead?
Suzy Deering (43:06):
How do I lead? I lead with others. I lead with clarity. I lead with humanity and humility because I know that's what I would want from my leaders. I don't necessarily want to lead from what we would think as being the first kid in line. I don't need to be the line leader.
Charles (43:46):
As you look at the future, what are you afraid of?
Suzy Deering (43:52):
At this moment, defining who I am next. I think one of the biggest challenges are titles. I think that we would be in a much better position in many companies if titles didn't even exist. And I've heard others on your podcast state this. I had to have a conversation with my children when the first time that I made a decision to leave a high-profile job.
And I sat my kids down, and they were old enough, and I said, "If I don't hold the title Global Chief Marketing Officer or something that has a C, Chief, CEO, or whatever the case is, how is that going to make you feel?" And they both laughed at me (laughs) like, "Mom, you're mom. We don't care." And it was the first time that I realized that's something that we've put in our heads because it's been a title that's always been, the comma after Suzy Deering.
And I will be very transparent with you that right now, I still struggle with what's that title? I love my title of wife and mom and daughter and sister and friend. But I do, I struggle right now thinking, again the imposter syndrome in me is, what's that next title? And if I don't fill it in, who's going to fill it in or what is it going to be filled in with?
Charles (45:29):
Thank you so much for coming on the show today. I am struck by your humanity, your warmth, your honesty, and your thoughtfulness, and also your deep introspection. I just think those are characteristics that have clearly taken you a long way and I'm sure will carry you into whatever future you want to have.
And if there's anything I can do to help you as you map the future, you only have to ask. I really appreciate today.
Suzy Deering (45:51):
Thank you. I have so enjoyed this, so thank you so much. And it's been an actual honor to be here because you've interviewed some incredible humans. So thank you.
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