Marcel Marcondes of AB InBev
What terrifies you?
"FEARLESS CREATIVE LEADERSHIP" PODCAST - TRANSCRIPT
Episode 215: Marcel Marcondes
Here’s a question. What terrifies you?
I’m Charles Day. I work with creative and innovative companies. I’m asked to coach their leaders to help them succeed where leadership has its greatest impact. The intersection of strategy and humanity.
This week’s guest is Marcel Marcondes. He’s the Global Chief Marketing Officer for AB InBev.
Becoming the successful Global CMO of any major brand is a life’s dream for many people.
If you’re one of the few to make it, it’s easy to get caught up in the gestalt of the thing. The public adulation that comes with the buying power and influence that you suddenly wield.
But for the very best of them, being a Global CMO brings out the human being in you.
“It's a huge privilege to be here and to have the opportunity to work with this amazing team and with these amazing brands in a great category. But at the same time, exactly because of that, the visibility, the exposure is so big that sometimes it's also terrifying. Because every day you're making decisions, you're taking risks knowing that everybody's going to see it. So it's terrifying sometimes to think about it, right? Because it makes the decisions complicated, and taking risks is complicated. And you have to brave. And you have to move forward. And you have to trust.”
I’m not conscious that I’ve ever heard prominent leader publicly use the phrase, ‘sometimes it’s also terrifying’.
There are three points to make coming from Marcel’s memorable use of that phrase.
One - that business is in great hands because it’s being run by someone who’s conscious of the responsibility and is also conscious that he needs to be courageous to keep it moving forward. The fastest path to letting the status quo win is to believe that what you should be doing next doesn’t require courage.
Two - more talented people will want to work for Marcel because he is honest about the size and the consequence of the challenge. And if there is a single truth that I’ve learned, it’s that creative people want to make one thing more than anything else - a difference.
And three - leadership is a constant battle between fear and courage. It has to be.
If you feel afraid a lot, you’re probably on the right path to making a difference.
If you sometimes feel terrified, you definitely are.
Here’s Marcel Marcondes.
Charles (02:47):
Marcel, welcome back to Fearless. Thanks so much for coming back on the show.
Marcel Marcondes (02:52):
Thank you, Charles. It's a huge pleasure to be back here, thank you.
Charles (02:55):
Last time we talked, we were very much in the middle of the pandemic. I think you were down in Florida, the world was unrecognizable. As you reflect now back on the last what is almost three years, what do you think has changed most about leadership in general, about your leadership?
Marcel Marcondes (03:13):
I think, Charles, as we continue to see opportunity in anything that happens, and trying to see the glass half full, try to learn from the experiences we go through, I think it made us better, in a sense. Because I think there was a huge lesson for leadership during the pandemic, which was, pay attention to people. Treat consumers as human beings. I think we all took this alert that we're dealing with humans, with people, and that we need to change the way we interact with them as brands, as companies, as leaders. Because that's where the magic lives, is when you really establish a human connection with the ones you serve. And it was a gigantic opportunity for us to rediscover that during the pandemic.
Charles (04:07):
How do we hold on to that in the middle of running a really complicated, demanding business, right? Because, I mean, that's such a powerful concept. But the realities can be so overwhelming. How do you hold on to the human side of that equation every day?
Marcel Marcondes (04:21):
I think it's about changing the order of things, Charles, because I think we have an inertia in our ways of working on average, which is to think about our plans first. What we as an organization would like to achieve and accomplish first. And then, we think about, how do we convince our consumers about it? Or, how do we make it happen? How do we bring them in? And if you really walk the talk, and if you really understand that the magic lives in identifying the real opportunities for you to exist, adding value to people's lives, you change the order. Because then you start your planning process by thinking about them first. What are they going through? Which are the unattended needs? Which are the changes in their routines? In their habits? And which are the authentic opportunities that those changes offer for us as a business? And then, we plan our business to react to that, to add value to those opportunities by putting them first, not us first.
Charles (05:27):
Since we last spoke, you've had a massive change in your role and responsibilities. Congratulations. That kind of position has a lot of mythology around it, I guess, right? People have views of the kind of responsibilities on that kind of role from the outside. How much does that job look like the job you thought you were getting? How much has it met your expectations in terms of the job you thought you were walking into?
Marcel Marcondes (05:52):
I would say it's bigger than I thought, Charles, because we as a company, we are going through very important times. As you know, we grew mainly via acquisitions over time. We had the privilege of being able to lead the consolidation process of the beer industry, until we became the indisputable number one, globally speaking, right? And so the changes that we're going through now is that, once you become the number one, the growth algorithm has to change. Because instead of working to gain market share or to have focus in cost discipline, to focus on cash creation so we can acquire another company, you have to develop the industry. The role of the leader is to expand the industry, to develop the industry. And then, this is how you grow together. So it's great to see that we are fully aware of this next mission as a company.
And for the CMO, especially for the Global CMO, it brings incremental responsibilities, right? Because to grow organically, when the company makes a decision to grow 100% organically, to really focus on that, brands become the most important assets of the organization because this is the only way to go, right? So I feel much more like it's a job that has as a main responsibility be the key leaders in driving growth. And this is big.
Charles (07:16):
I mean, the possibilities that are created by that kind of dynamic are enormous, right? I mean, the ability to actually influence society. Is that one of the thoughts that kind of lingers with you day-to-day? Is that a focus for you, the ability to change society?
Marcel Marcondes (07:32):
I would say to add value—
Charles (07:33):
Mm.
Marcel Marcondes (07:33):
—to society. Because I think that's the point, still talking about the process of evolution in terms of how we do things as we really treat people as humans. The point is not anymore to find ways to have our brand visible to them or just to shout out loud, to fight for their attention. It's all about finding real and meaningful ways to add value to their lives. And that's what makes the job quite exciting because it's a great journey. It's a great way to spend your everyday routine. And it's even better when now we believe, because we've been through that and it's proven that that approach does drive growth. So then it's a win-win. It's not easy. It's a huge responsibility because now it's dealing with people for real. But it's very rewarding, as well.
Charles (08:23):
On a personal basis, inside your own organization, how do you think your personal leadership has changed over the last couple of years?
Marcel Marcondes (08:32):
Oh, it has changed a lot, Charles. I used to say that one of the things that make us special, and I try to bring it to life in our work every day, is this magical combination, in terms of being at the same time very ambitious, to really act as a leader, to look for things that are tough to achieve, hard targets, and to really behave as a leader. At the same time as being very humble. Humble to acknowledge that we need to learn every day. So for me, that's the balance that I try to bring to life every day in my leadership style.
We are addressing humans. And our job is to be meaningful, to add value to their lives via the products and services that we do. But the way to drive these conversations is about balancing those two elements. We are leaders. We need to act as leaders. Therefore, we need to be extremely ambitious in every dream that we have. But at the same time, very humble. To never believe that we have cracked the code, that we know how to do it, that we're better than anyone. Because in the world as it is today, and with the pace of change, either you learn every single day, or you're happy today and you're dead tomorrow.
Charles (09:45):
I think that's such an important reference point, isn't it? Because one of the things that the pandemic has clearly changed are people's expectations of the companies they work for. There's a different dynamic today, it feels to me, anyway, between an employee's willingness to accept the rules and regulations of an organization and their own interest in being self-determined, to a larger extent. Do you see that? Have you seen evidence of that in your own organization, in your own experience of the last couple of years?
Marcel Marcondes (10:15):
Absolutely. Absolutely. Because, again, the pandemic brought the spotlights to that situation. And people started to notice which were the companies and the brands that were really getting the point and making themselves relevant, meaningful to their lives. And they said, "Ah, no, but this is what I expect from a brand and from a company." So the reference is much more clear in people's lives now.
This is why, for example, we've decided to improve our corporate purpose after that, right? So, we moved from, we exist to bring people together for a better world, which is good, but you probably heard... there's enough companies with purpose statements similar than that. And now we have something that is much sharper to what we really stand for and to the role that we can actually play in people's lives. As we say, we dream big to create a future with more cheers.
And that's our new North Star as a company. Feels like this is more closely connected to who we are and to how we can add value to society. So it's to create a future with more cheers. And it's a consequence of dreaming big because this is what we have in our DNA. I'm very passionate about it. We are very passionate about it. And this is the guiding principle now that we have behind everything we do. But this came out of this learning process, as well.
Charles (11:34):
And do you find that imbues every decision on a day-to-day basis? How often does that get referenced overtly within the organization?
Marcel Marcondes (11:42):
We're really bringing this to our everyday routine because it's not only about updating the statement, it's about believing that we can live by those principles for real. So it's in almost every email, every message that we exchange. And we double-check if every big action that we decide to make really connects with that North Star or not. We're really taking it seriously.
Charles (12:08):
As you look ahead, 2023 and beyond, what do you think is gonna be expected of leaders?
Marcel Marcondes (12:16):
I think everybody went through these tough times, where we were like, "Whoa, what's going on?" And we all learned to adjust, to pivot, and hopefully to listen to people before we make the decision so that we can decide, thinking about them first. Then, getting out of the pandemic, hopefully getting out of the pandemic, and then everybody was like, "Okay, now we're going to get back to life," and then there's a war. Which comes together with economic consequences. And then, now everybody talks about inflation and things like this.
So, one, I think we are getting used to dealing with last-minute changes, with barriers that show up every year. It just changes what the barrier is, but there's always something that you have to overcome. And two, I think because of the nature of the issues we've been dealing with, everybody's dealing with growth acceleration missions. I see this in every conversation that I have, with every peer, in every forum that I join. Everybody's thinking about, "How can I optimize the business so that I can reconnect with growth?" That is going to be, I think, the key theme. The key theme. So for me, the magic will be on sticking with that, but without forgetting that we're... we drive growth by serving people better than others, by adding value to their lives. And these are the two elements that I think is my job to connect.
Charles (13:39):
Again, as you look forward at the future of leadership, and your own leadership, what do you think is the one thing that leaders cannot do, going forward, that used to be part of the leadership construct? Is there anything that you think, "You know what? We used to be able to do that stuff, and now absolutely we cannot,"?
Marcel Marcondes (13:56):
I think we cannot look to ourselves only and say, "This is the next step I'd like to take as a company." We have to put people first. And I think, now more than ever, we have to make it crystal clear what we stand for, what our brands stand for, so that our actions can be not only meaningful, but they are also authentic. Because more and more, it's impossible nowadays to have something that is unanimous, right? Everything... Like, you have different groups with different perspectives, so you need to have total clarity on what you stand for, on what your groups care about. And then you need to find that bright spot where the two dimensions connect. This is fundamental important for a brand to succeed, for a company to succeed in the world as it is today. If we ignore that, this is a big issue because you tend to become either irrelevant, or you're probably going to step into a place where you don't belong. And this is when you put yourself in trouble.
Charles (15:02):
One of the things that we've seen change a lot in the last couple of years is the nature of the office and people's relationship with the office. I know that you and I share a common philosophical view, which is, the creative process is fundamentally collaborative. You have to involve multiple people in solving a problem. That no individual can solve really big problems by themselves these days. As you look at the journey that your company has taken over the last couple of years and you sort of project ahead over the next couple, what does the office look like from your perspective now? And what do you think it's going to look like in a year, say?
Marcel Marcondes (15:36):
Wow, this is a great question. I'm pretty sure that everybody's thinking a lot about it. I don't have a clear vision about how the office will look like. I think we're going to learn by doing some changes, and we'll figure out over time what's the best thing, what's the best mix, what's the best configuration.
What I do believe is that we need to get smarter in the way we use the office. I am a big believer, because I talk so much about people first and the human power, I am a big believer of proximity. And I'm going to talk soon about the creative process, that to me is the most important part of your question. So I believe that the office will remain being relevant because it's important for people to get together, especially on the long-term. Without togetherness, we lose a lot of the power that we can create as humans together.
However, we need to be smarter, because we need to give ourselves some extra flexibility to acknowledge when it's not necessary to be there. But to me, it's more still connected to the exception, not to the rule. Because for me, the center of gravity is still about what you can build and deliver when you have a group of people working together. Because you touch the most important thing to me, Charles, which is the creative process. And in the world as it is today, everything is starting to become a commodity. Even the technological barriers are going down for new companies to get into new segments, for new brands to play the game.
So, more and more, what I believe is the fundamental competitive advantage that you can build is your ability to come up with creative solutions for real business or consumer problems. And this is the number one philosophy for us. We work every day to come up with creative solutions for business or consumer problems because this is what makes us different. Otherwise, it's an ocean of companies trying to show up, or brands trying to capture attention. So it all comes down to that ability to create... to have creative solutions to business and consumer problems.
We're super excited this year, for example, Charles, about being nominated by Cannes Lions as the Creative Marketers of the Year. We also achieved the number one position in the Effies ranking for effective marketing. Because we believe that these skills, these abilities, they are crucial for the future. Otherwise, you become invisible.
Charles (18:10):
As you look back at the last years of success, that you've just cited, what do you give credit to predominantly? Why do you think you have achieved that success as an organization?
Marcel Marcondes (18:21):
First, it's because we really embraced the idea of putting people first. I think the power of any idea starts by really understanding, what is this problem or this opportunity that you're trying to address? Otherwise, it's just, you can have something very creative, but creativity for creativity's sake only is entertainment. If you really run your business, right? If you really want to grow a brand because this brand becomes more meaningful to a human being, you need to have creativity at the service of addressing a real business or a consumer problem. So having that as a starting point of everything you do is a key element that I attribute to the success we've been having.
The other element is to be able to establish a real system, on a global basis, that harmonizes that ways of working. Because sometimes within a company you see pockets of creativity, or a team that is especially good at this or that. But what we are achieving is a real system, where we harmonize and standardize this philosophy and these ways of working. This is what gives us hope and optimism about the future.
And then, again, we're paying a lot of attention to the outcome of what we do, as well, Charles. So, what gives us confidence is that it's great to see, for example, that the brands that are awarded or recognized in these moments, they are also the brands that are driving growth. And then, within our company, we are this year in our all-time high... we just achieved our all-time high volumes as an organization. At the same time as we achieved our all-time high brand power for our portfolio. So it seems like everything's connected. And so this is a question that is very well-integrated and this is our big bet for the future, moving forward.
Charles (20:08):
I wanna ask you a couple of personal questions. There are not very many Global CMOs in the world. There are even fewer Global CMOs of really huge influential brands. What's it like having that job? For those of us who will not know the experience of it, what's it like waking up every morning with this kind of responsibility, with this kind of title, with this kind of position?
Marcel Marcondes (20:34):
Charles, if I'm brutally honest with you, it's a mix of extreme feelings because it's a gigantic privilege. It's a gigantic pleasure. I think to myself many times, like, "Whoa, thank God, it's a huge privilege to be here and to have the opportunity to work with this amazing team and with these amazing brands in a great category, like beer, that has a natural and authentic role in society."
But at the same time, exactly because of that, the visibility, the exposure is so big that sometimes it's also terrifying. Because every day you're making decisions, you're taking risks knowing that everybody's going to see it. So it's terrifying sometimes to think about it, right? Because it makes the decisions complicated, and taking risks is complicated. And you have to be brave. And you have to move forward. You have to trust your instincts, your process, your people, right? You have to empower people, because at this point, it's about winning through the team. My job now is to set the team up for success. It's not about me anymore.
So this is it. So, I'd say it's a mix of these three elements. It's a huge pleasure. It's a huge privilege. Every now and then, it's very terrifying, as well. And it's an amazing opportunity for learning, as well, because it's now about serving and supporting the team. And this is great. You just need to be mindful of that so you can do your job right.
Charles (22:15):
That's such a great answer. Thank you for being so candid. And I'm curious, just to take that a bit further, in those moments where you suddenly realize, "Oh my God," when the fear rises up, where does the courage come from, to help you push through that?
Marcel Marcondes (22:29):
The courage comes from knowing what is the key element that we're trying to address, coming from a human perspective, coming from consumers first. Period. That's it. The more we know, what is the point that we really want to address, what is the need, the opportunity, the unfulfilled need that we can add value for, the braver we get. Because we know why we're doing what we're doing. The problem is when you talk about ideas just because you have ideas, or, what if? Or, what if? It all starts by knowing the why. And the more you know the why, the braver you'll get to press the button for the what and the how.
Charles (23:09):
You can't have the kind of success you're having as a brand without instilling an environment, a culture of creative courage. How do you make sure that that is part of your everyday reality? That the group that works with you, that the team around you has that reservoir of courage to fall back on, to push them through to doing great work?
Marcel Marcondes (23:31):
It's about connecting this approach on having creative solutions to... It's about connecting that with growth creation. Because if you treat that creative process just as something that is nice to have or something that we like, that we enjoy, then it comes and goes. Because it's a choice. It's an option. But when it becomes crystal clear to everybody that coming up with creative solutions for business or consumer problems is a growth process, it's a growth model, then it's really the ways of working for the company to move forward, right? And then there's no way we can run away from that. It's the ways of working. It's not an option. It's what we believe in. It's how we work. That's the first part of the answer.
I have to say, Charles, there is a second part of the answer, as well, which is all about making sure that there is always a next very tough mission on the table, so that people feel like even if they wanted to play safe, they wouldn't be able to, because they don't know what to do. And this is how we push ourselves every day. So, for example, I just spoke with you about being excited about the accolades on Cannes and Effies and giving us confidence that we're getting much better in finding these creative solutions for business and consumer problems.
But we have a very clear mission as a team now, that we're all, like, "What do we do now?" Which is digital integration. Now, also coming out of the pandemic, we have accelerated significantly our B2B business, our D2C, or direct-to-consumers business. We have a lot of critical mass on that. We can sell beer, deliver beer directly to people's homes via an app, right? And this opens multiple possibilities for us, because now we go... we can work through the whole chain until transaction. This unlocks for us multiple opportunities, as well, in terms of acquiring first-party data, meaning, knowing when people buy, what people buy, when, how, why. And so this changes the way we work. And this should unlock multiple opportunities. So this is our next big mission, to become best in class on that. On incorporating direct-to-consumers and digital integration into our brand building model so that we can find even more and better creative solutions for new problems that we can now address, and drive even more growth.
Do we know how to do this? Not yet. We're learning on a daily basis. But everybody, people like, "And so what do I do?" You know? So, it's so important to always have a big mission on the table, a big next step that we do not have all the answers for, so that there's no other way to win unless we're really creative in how we address that challenge.
Charles (26:25):
Can't say it better than that. Last two quick questions for you. Clearly your career is a long way from being over, but as you look back so far, do you have any regrets?
Marcel Marcondes (26:35):
I would say on a high-level, Charles, the regrets that I have are more connected to not believing... not moving forward with the initiatives that I knew deep in my heart were the right things to do. Every time when I didn't fight enough for something that felt right, I regret all those moments. And I try to use them as learning opportunities. I think about them whenever I have something that I know it's going to be hard to be done but I really believe in, so that I can get some actual level of energy to keep pushing.
Charles (27:10):
And last question for you, as you look to the future, what are you afraid of?
Marcel Marcondes (27:18):
What am I afraid of? I'm afraid of us still waking up one day with the news saying that there is a terrible pandemic somewhere, that somebody discovered something (laughs) crazy that will change our lives (laughs) overnight. That we're gonna have to stay home, that we won't be able to see people again. I think we're all traumatized with everything that we've been through, right? And to wake up for the fact that these things happened and that something similar could happen again is terrifying.
Charles (27:51):
Yeah, the uncertainty of it all. it was absolutely destabilizing, wasn't it? The notion that we could deal with something this cataclysmic that we had so little control over was startling to so many people.
Marcel Marcondes (28:03):
Yeah.
Charles (28:04):
Thank you so much, as always, for coming on. Thank you for your candor, your insight, and your honesty. I really enjoy these conversations.
Marcel Marcondes (28:10):
Thank you so much, Charles. Always a great pleasure talking to you. And looking forward to seeing you in person.
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