Faith Popcorn, Futurist
How do you define impossible?
"FEARLESS CREATIVE LEADERSHIP" PODCAST - TRANSCRIPT
Episode 190: Faith Popcorn
Here’s a question. How do you know when something’s impossible?
I’m Charles Day. I work with creative and innovative companies. I coach their leaders to help them maximize their impact and grow their business. To help them succeed where leadership has its greatest impact. The intersection of strategy and humanity.
This week’s guest is the futurist Faith Popcorn. This is the full conversation we recorded a few weeks ago, some of which we included in our first episode of the year - ‘How Will The Best Leaders Lead In 2022?’.
Faith is the founder of the BrainReserve and she and her team are hired to tell companies and industries what the future looks like.
“So, before we become part robots, and that'll be another session we could have, and we're already part robot, who's going to get the best chips, brain chips? That's going to be a division in classes. Right now people are even microdosing before they come to work, or not coming to work, so they can be sharper and smarter, or because the competition's so technological, it's not just human competition, it's technological competition.”
Most people like the illusion of the status quo. The here and now is safe and warm, and predicting a future filled with disruption upsets companies and their leaders who are counting on more of the same to get them to next year.
The world has never worked like that, actually. And as we approach the 24th month of the new society that we are building, I’m consistently struck by how many people still trying to use the past as the reference point for the future.
The cost of entry to becoming a leader is imagination. The weekly fee for membership in the club of great leaders is the capacity and willingness to keep seeking out the seemingly impossible and then finding a way to make it part of the expected.
And if you think I’m asking too much, consider this, courtesy of Faith’s Twitter feed last week.
Over the last 200 years, the average lifespan of our species has tripled.
What makes any of us sure that won’t happen again?
Here is Faith Popcorn.
Charles: (02:28)
Faith, how do you think 2020 and '21 have changed us, both as a society and as human beings?
Faith Popcorn: (02:36)
Well, I think it's changed us quite a bit. I mean it socked in cocooning so deeply, I don't think we're ever going to get over it or out of it. It proved to us that we can get almost everything we need home, in home, medicine, education, all, but I think also it made us really yearn for people, and made us super lonely. And it also, I think, pulled the rug out from under us, especially Americans are always thinking everything's going to be all right. This showed us that everything's not going to be all right. Just when you think everything's going to be all right, it can get really bad.
So, I think that's shaken the confidence, the childlike confidence, the wonderful childlike confidence that Americans have to say that we are vulnerable, we are small specks in the universe, we can't control what's coming, really. And a lot of us don't even want to see what's coming.
Charles: (03:46)
And based on that, how do you think leadership is changing?
Faith Popcorn: (03:51)
I think leadership learned that they don't control the people they lead. And I think this was very shocking to them. I think they believed that holding the paycheck, or holding the leadership stance, that people would follow on. But actually people said, "I'm not coming to work. Gee, I don't feel safe coming to work. Gee, if when I come to work nobody's there." So, I think it disassociated leadership from the people more. It's always been somewhat disassociated, and it disassociated the people from the leadership, especially females.
Charles: (04:31)
Oh, interesting. Why so especially females, do you think?
Faith Popcorn: (04:35)
Well, you know, they're calling it the Great Resignation. And what happened was, females, like all of us, had to go home, be home. And females found, wow, they could be— you know, females are multi taskers, they're excellent at this. So, they realized that they could so much more calmly, you know, run the kids, check on the schooling, check on the medical, you know, dust, Swift the house if they had to, do some work when they wanted to. Because females work on a 24 hour clock, not… you know, most people work, they think they work eight hours or 10 or, you know, maybe they stay awake for 12 or 15. But females always are kind of awake 24. They're the ones that listen for babies crying, they're kind of always on alert.
And they found it to be much more comfortable not having to go into the office, and they’re not coming back any day soon. So, the beginnings of this are, like, “Okay, well maybe I'll come in three days,” you know? “I'm definitely not coming in five.” And I think it's going to dwindle. Three, two, none, some, some weeks. it has really broken down, I believe, the texture, the connective tissue between leadership and who they lead.
Charles: (06:03)
And how did leaders go about recreating that, albeit through a different lens or through a different set of physical circumstances? How can you become a leader in 2022 that can create that kind of fabric again, across the people that you're responsible for?
Faith Popcorn: (06:18)
Yeah. Well, there's something, you know, there's a theory called Servant Leadership, you know? Where the leaders serve those who they lead. And I think that that’s what’s going to happen, happening already. You know, what can I do for you? How can I help you? People are… companies are giving the people that work for them free college. And we'll give their children free college, and eventually, we'll create probably farms, grocery delivery services, clothing delivery services, and eventually maybe housing, to ensure that they keep the best talent. So, there's going to be levels. So, you'll do a lot for the big talent, and maybe less for the next big, next big, next big.
But that's the direction I see us going. People are hoping, "Oh, it's going to come back, it's going to be the same." It's not coming back. I mean, that's just… don't shoot the messenger. I like going to the office and talking and playing and all. But I'm in the minority.
Charles: (07:32)
So, if that becomes more the norm, that sort of hierarchical view of talent and their contribution, do you worry that that creates a more separated society even further? I mean, do you start to really separate people even more so than they are today?
Faith Popcorn: (07:47)
Well, didn't we do that already? Don't we pay the big talent more money? Maybe we're not that obvious about it. Don't they get the best perks? Don't they get to have longer vacations? And yeah. So, I think it makes it pretty obviously, yes. And I think you're going to see a lot of, let's say, not the top, but the next grade, and the next grade, and the next grade. I think unions could come back, because somebody has to protect them. And you do need them to run the machine.
So, before we become part robots, and that'll be another session we could have, and we're already part robot, who's going to get the best chips, brain chips? That's going to be a division in classes. Right now people are even microdosing before they come to work, or not come to work, so they can be sharper and smarter, or because the competition's so technological, it's not just human competition, it's technological competition. And I don't know what they're going to do with all that office space. Maybe make homes, apartments out of them. I do think that companies will provide, will have to provide perks, like housing to keep their employees.
Charles: (09:10)
How do you think companies should think about the office? What is an office going to be, going forward?
Faith Popcorn: (09:17)
A party space? Maybe, like, we get together and have parties. But it's not going to be financially viable to just keep an office to get together and have parties or brainstormings, or whatever they're saying they're going to have. This is very painful. It really is a new ecology of work. And right now we're working on, for a couple of clients, what does this mean? Like, what you're asking, what does this mean exactly? Is it going to be more leadership by committee, by group? You know, it's interesting, the Twitter chief just was… stepped down. And I'm hearing a lot of this, he got expelled not through the board as much as through the people. You're only a leader if someone wants to follow you. There's no forced leadership anymore.
And people are deciding in companies who they want to follow and who they want to lead. And that's a very new model.
Charles: (10:24)
And what do you think the answer is to that? If you were advising a leader today and said, "The most important thing is that people want to follow you," how would you advise them to lead so that they maximize the chances of that happening?
Faith Popcorn: (10:39)
I would say that you have to create deep and personal relationships with the ones you lead. So, if they don't come to the office, maybe you go to them. You know, maybe there are hubs where you meet, close to them. The biggest chatter I've heard is people really not wanting to commute. You know, it's like an hour and a half each way, three hours, three times five is 15. It's a day and a half out of your life. They don't want to commute, they want to hang out with their dogs like you do, Charles, and like I do. You know, people are always responsive to those who they believe care about them, always.
It's almost impossible, they did a study once, I think, at Harvard, Harvard, the great Harvard, which said it's almost impossible to dislike somebody who likes you. It's almost impossible. So, how many people, employees, believe that the leadership likes them, loves them, wants to do the best thing for them and their families? You know? What, 4%? I mean, what? So it's not something we use or leverage. And I think if leaders want anybody behind them to lead, they have to figure out ways to show their contingency, that they care, they care about their families, they care about their kids, they care about their development, they care that their houses are clean, that they have a good car, that they do take vacations.
Everybody's talking about how much time they can have off, not how much time they can go to work. Now it's three days, that means the majority of the week is four days. Now, they say they work at home, yeah, they work at home. But we're talking about getting them in, and I don't think that's going to happen.
Charles: (12:36)
So, if you want to be seen to be a leader who genuinely cares about the people that you're responsible for, what do you think are the obstacles of that happening? What gets in the way of that?
Faith Popcorn: (12:44)
They don't care. They never had to care. They just had to make money. You know, if you play this, leaders will write to you and go, like, "Oh, yes, we care." No, they don't care. First of all, if you're talking about many leaders are male, men are not built that way, to love their employees. It may be more of a female model, and the model is also not to get input from a lot of people and go forward that way, see how they want it. How many people, how many leaders have gone to an employee's house for dinner? How many employers have invited somebody over for dinner? How many employers have suggested a tutor for one of their people whose kid is struggling in math?
Charles: (13:39)
A number of people have started talking about the need for agile leadership. What do you think makes up a… what are the qualities of a leader who is agile, or an agile leader?
Faith Popcorn: (13:51)
I think, to really have agility, you have to lose fear, and because the big boss of the big boss of the big boss is always watching you, it's hard to lose fear because you think, "Oh, I'm going to get fired, you know, if I try this or that." Because agility, I think, commands experimentation. I think it's a youthful thing, I hate to say. I think it's very hard for older leaders to be agile. And I think that there's an expectation that older leaders have that their position is secure, they never felt that they had to be in service to the people who work for them.
Charles: (14:34)
And that becomes a new norm, doesn't it? As you've said, the idea of being in service to the people that you are responsible for.
Faith Popcorn: (14:40)
They don't respect you just because you're leading them, or you're supposed to be leading them, or you have a higher title or more pay. They don't. The grand employees, for the most part, don't really respect or like or attach to their leadership. They've had to, you know, get behind them, but if you really have a truthful interview with most people, say, "Does your leader love you? Do they know your kids' names and birthdays? Do they know your birthday?" Those little signals. No, of course they don't. I mean, if you have 20,000 people reporting to you, like some of these big companies have, not direct reports but, like, yeah, are you going to really love every, each and every one?
Charles: (15:41)
And if you had one piece of advice for leaders going into 2022 and beyond, what would it be?
Faith Popcorn: (15:48)
Listen to your female friends, because they will tell you another language, to keep your employees happy, a language of leadership, a language of compassion. I think that they're the greatest source, actually, of what it means to be a great leader. It's really, it's not a great leader. Leader indicates that there are people under you, or behind, you know? It's really how to be a great human being. And set an example for the others.
We're going to have to make some really radical changes in the formation of business models, business... what does business mean? Anytime you say business, it sounds horrible. What is that? You know?
And I didn't mention the Metaverse. How could I go five minutes without mentioning the Metaverse. So, we've been talking about the Metaverse for five years. So, suddenly Zuck, Zucky, as they call him, says we’re changing our name to Meta. Okay, suddenly we're brilliant, yay, the Metave— But the Metaverse is an alternative place to live. And I think a lot of business will be conducted on the Metaverse. And we'll be all dressed up in different outfits, and our avatars even, ABBA, you know, the ABBAtars, are introducing their new album with avatars, cheapest facelift on the planet. But, yeah, I think a lot of business is going to be in the Metaverse. And it's going to be very pretty, and interesting looking.
Charles: (17:26)
And we can all reinvent ourselves in whatever way we want to show up, right?
Faith Popcorn: (17:29)
Yes, exactly.
Charles: (17:31)
Yeah. All these years of struggling with who we are, and now we just get to decide who we want to be.
Faith Popcorn: (17:35)
Exactly. And we can change everyday.
Charles: (17:39)
Faith, thanks so much for coming on today. As always, extraordinarily insightful and just provocative. I really appreciate it.
Faith Popcorn: (17:44)
Thank you so much, I love talking to you.
Charles: (17:47)
Likewise.
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